Industries that Case recovered the most money from last year:
Timeshare: $1,892,134
Hi everyone (except for one)
Without attempting to understand more, there seems to be someone here who have only bad things to say about all of us but good things about GMC/S&B. If so, this person should start another blog or topic to talk about it. For all her “intelligence”, she got the wrong site!
We should not give this rude and immature person the dignity and honour of a response. It is not worth our effort.
For new readers, we are people who have something in common – many of us signed up with S&B or GMC, based on what they promised us, but are grossly disappointed with our real experiences with them, when we asked for the promised services and deliverables – hence this sharing.
If you have unpleasant and disappointing experiences with these companies (like most of us), and tried discussing with them – but to no avail, yes, consulting CASE on what you can do as a consumer, is a viable option.
Going to CASE is a very simple, efficient and not expensive process. I spent 2 hours there, discussed, know more about my consumer rights, and have CASE drafted a letter for me to GMC. CASE is helping me follow up with it as well. The fees is only $10-$20 (depending on the amount $5K-10K you are claiming) until we close this case. The details is in CASE website, you can even do an online complaint if you have no time to go to CASE personally.. Apart from CASE, there is also the Small Claims Tribunal Court that we can approach for help.
http://www.case.org.sg/Lodge_a_Complaint.html (you can see the fees you need to pay here)
http://app.subcourts.gov.sg/sct/index.aspx (Small Claims Tribunal)
I wonder why someone discourage clients from approaching CASE? If the company is true to their words and services, not misrepresenting or misleading clients, they have nothing to worry about. Is there fear that CASE may take this up further if too many consumers come forward with the similar complaints against the said companies ? Hmmm
Let us stayed focus and continue with our experience sharing and discussion, and respond only to those that can help us forward our cause. I am sure we will be sharing our success stories soon – as some of us are engaging the Small Tribunal Court soon. For other postings that try to defocus us, or waste our energy, just ignore them.
Hi guys
Thanks! and look forward to joining forces with all. Myra, for your information (if you ever need this piece of advice one day).
I went to SCT yesterday to claim against S&B. A consultation session had already been scheduled with me, S& B and a mediator 10 days later and i need to pay only $10 for this. What mindeye said is true, we need to file this one after another so that it would be impactful for SCT to look into this seriously!
Kenascam, mindeye, tomorrownevercomes2009 & surfer1041- May I appeal to you all to 'advertise' these scammers in all forums, facebook, twitter,blogs available. We have to put a stop to this!!
We need to do this together!All the best to us!
The problem with the SCT is that if it is not a cooling off period timeshare / direct sale transaction, they cannot hear the case and you might be spending lots and lots of time going back and back with no result in the end. You might go through mediation at SCT but when they refuse to pay or cancel, and it goes before the judge, the court may not be able to hear your case. But in any case, if the judge finds it is not timeshare, they can decide.
Very complicated.
Haha maybe the strategy is that you file at SCT and then the co. have to spend all their time in court that they have to hire people full time to do court as well - so they earn less profit, and dont have so much time asking people to sign up for membership- even if it may not help us much.
Think maybe the solution is still to seek proper lawyer's advice and see how to file a case against them. Then everyone who bought from each co. come together and file against the different co. as a group like in the US like that. The CASE case before - dont think it got anywhere cos it was more tell them to stop harassing people and do unfair practice but how to catch? Did any of the witnesses who bought get their money back? It was not a case to get their money back. Also if you go to CASE - they just ask you to pay them $10 and they will just write a letter. If their letter is ignored which is almost always the case, CASE push you to SCT. Then never explain that SCT cannot hear the case some times.
Has anyone who won at SCT get their money back from the co? Plez share.
OK, think this is the thing to do if you just bought a few days
(1) Cancel - if you just bought and want to cancel like say the next day, no need to give reason. Write to them - quote their reference no. date of agreement etc or even photocopy the front page - whatever works - then say that you wish to cancel the agreement and you are giving them notice. Look at the Consumer Protection (Fair Trading)(Cancellation of Contracts) Regulations. It does not matter if they claim they are not timeshare - look, even if they were and they want your money, would they tell you you can cancel? Course not. So be kiasu and just give notice first.
(2) File claim - then file claim in SCT - if the co. contacts you and settles and gives you back your money before the hearing date, you can always cancel your appointment. All you lost is $10. If not, you will have followed the neccessary steps. Just be careful of going to their office. May give you another long talk or ask you to sign more like amend or change this and that - get you all blur and you sign again and they backdate so you cannot claim that you are within the cooling off period. So be careful.
Hi Tomorrownevecomes2009,
Thanks for the wake up. It may seem that believing in the fairness is not realistic, as you put it, who has successfully claimed back their money. But then again, what choice do we have. If by voicing my unhappiness with Smiths & Baron is able to stop someone from being scammed, then I take consolation in it.
As for now, my option is to use Case then SCT. If that fails, then we can still gather and file a case with a lawyer.
For all those out there who has gotten back your money, do share you experinces with us and how we can improve our chances.
Thanks all for your advice!
I was thinking about what Tomorrownevercomes2009 was saying about SCT not hearing cases for timeshare related companies and I think it is ok cos right now CASE is trying to convince S&B to admit that they are indeed a timeshare related company, hence they should comply to the 5 day cooling off period. But as you all know, they are now denying it. So if CASE fails to convince them, I guess SCT has to hear our cases then since S&B continues to take their stand on NOT being a timeshare related.
So the way I see it, if they admit they are timeshare related, they have to comply to the cooling off period and we get out money back and if they insist they are not, we should be able to take it up in court. Please correct me if I'm naively mistaken. :)
Hi All, got this article, from 2008, Strait Times
A majority of customers who went to Case got back more than half the amounts in dispute. One in five received full refunds, said Mr Seah.
Nearly all the cases involved five timeshare companies, two of which are being taken to court by Case.
The consumer watchdog considers a timeshare dispute resolved when the consumer gets a full or partial refund, or successfully gets out of the contract.
Timeshare related transactions were tops on the list of money refunded because the lifetime memberships at holiday resorts worldwide can cost tens of thousands of dollars each.
The fact that these purchases came with options to re-sell, lease or terminate the deals with money-back guarantees also made them hotbeds for disputes.
Complaints against the timeshare companies typically involved their hard-sell tactics and the misleading claims they made to entice consumers to sign on the dotted line.
http://www.straitstimes.com/Free/Story/STIStory_205233.html
count me in!
Anyone can advise me whether i should go straight to SCT, instead of waiting for S&B to reply to CASE letter?
Hi Victim of S&B - Are you fighting for the cooling-off period? It's been 3 weeks since CASE has sent the letter to them on my behalf and they have not replied. I decided not to wait further so I went to SCT last Sat. Hearing is 1 Dec.I am fighting against the cooling-off period which they fail to honour.
gh5128 - go file your claim. If they respond before SCT, then see what they say. At least you dont have to wait. If they refuse to refund you, then you still have SCT case waiting.
SCT is suppose to be simple and quick but the reality is that it is not. The only thing is it is cheap - $10 no matter how many times you go back and back for yr one case. It only saves you lawyer's fees becuz you do everything yourself but you will have to invest a lot of time at the SCT. Think you are suppose to go for settlement first which is the first step and a must. Check the SCT website. If they refuse to offer anything or you dont accept, then it goes to the judge to hear and decide. Depend on what is shown to the judge, you might win or lose still.
So put it this way, if they manage to settle before your SCT date, you can always inform SCT and dun need to go for SCT. If not, then you have the SCT date and not have to wait so long for outcome.
As long as you give them notice immediately - like day after - be sure you got prove like posting etc or fax. Then when the matter is, is ok since you can show you cancel straight away. If they are not within the cooling period time case, then you need to think about why you should get yr money back.
Aiya - did not see properly. Mix up victim with gh5128. Good luck gh5128 with yr 1 dec case.
Just my thots - why must buy timeshare now? Right? So many discounts available online. Not like it is free right? Now learn actually very expensive lesson.
It is so easy to check on internet for offers and even airlines can sometimes tie in with hotel. Also you dont have to be stuck with stupid dates or times - you must think they have so many members, and if everyone go at the same times - like school hols how to accomodate everyone? Pay as you go lor. It is not as if you get something really special. Just remember nothing is free one - so discounts and all even if promised, may not be exclusive or so so good lah. If like that how to do biz? They might be able to give you some money off - but you forgot hor, you paid alot upfront already. So if you calculate, still may not be that worth it. Save a few dollars but pay out alot in the end.
This is a bit like the Raffles Town Club - say sell X membership, veri exclusive then turn out so many members cos they sell alot. The only way they can make money is to get as many members as possible - and take as much money from each person as possible. They may not be "cheating" but you know you will end up prob paying more in the long run and be frustrated cos you cannot use the time you want and the discounts not as great as you thot.
And who will buy yr membership? Not in the co's interest to let you privately sell or transfer right? they need fresh blood - if they allow exchange, transfer, privately they cant make as much. So it is not an investment even if they tell you so cos once you buy, you are locked in for life.
If you are still not convinced of what they ask you to sign and what they tell you - cos what you sign dont look like what they tell you - RUN! hahaha - dont be shy shy and sign then say you no choice. Just run. If they get angry - so what. Never mind. If they try to embarass you say you poor why come and how lian - just say ya lor - should not have how lian - then run! As long as you dont sign, dont pay, they cant really tahan. Then dont be so greedy and ask - er you promise this voucher and that voucher - I never sign can get or not? Forget the vouchers - run!
Pay as you go - it will give you less heartache.
Yes, Good Luck to you gh5128.
You have set the mark, your "no waste time" attitude is commendable.
HI Tomorrow-always-come2009
Can you elaborate on this ".......The problem with the SCT is that if it is not a cooling off period timeshare / direct sale transaction, they cannot hear the case and you might be spending lots and lots of time going back and back with no result in the end. You might go through mediation at SCT but when they refuse to pay or cancel, and it goes before the judge, the court may not be able to hear your case. But in any case, if the judge finds it is not timeshare, they can decide. Very complicated....". If you have some experience here, please share so that we can learn.
My understanding is that SCT does not restrict to time-share or direct sales only. SCT can be used for any claim dispute within say, $10k or something like that. Time-share or direct sales is for the qualification of the 5-day cooling period.
Hi Tomorrownevercomes, I disagree with you on the, They may not be "cheating", with the Raffles town club issue.
Whenever someone hides certain facts that or lie about details then it is cheating. Their final outcome is to make you buy, and you buy with the knowledge of the facts that they provided then.
They should give us all the real facts and then we should decided on if we want to buy or not. They should not drum up things to say that it is this and that and when we later find out it is not so.
I do not know much about the Raffles Town Club issue. My point is this, if they willfully deny us facts of withhold facts that will not allow us to make a well informed decision, then it is CHEATING.
And this is the problem with timeshare or Holiday clubs. Like the one I bought with Smiths & Baron. They lied about the discounts, they could never give such an amount. At that point of time, we have only them to rely on.
The first time that we were able to find out the truth is when the service is used. By then it is too late.
Hi Mindeye - read the SCT act online. Think they can only hear cases for sale of goods, services and residential tenancies and not anything under $10K only. So very limited window of what cases can be brought in SCT. The timeshare very confusing becuz like the Consumer Act say can bring ts cancellation cases to SCT if it is a case within cooling period. So think if not under those conditions, SCT cannot hear yr case. Dont think they always can tell u upfront =( you go through mediation and think can can but if not settled at tt stage, go to judge, kena cannot hear yr case. So they cannot decide on all types of TS cases only some types.
Kena - on "cheating" - was referring to promises TS give. They tell you get up to XX% but in the end you find out what "up to" means - can mean 0% up to XX% not that you get at least XX% - so although impression is tt you get XX%, reality is if they give you even 0% hard to find they "wrong" - cuz now say the promise is up to not at least. So yes, morally wrong lor but hard to catch cuz they always smart and the document always never exact or say guarantee - all very very vague one.
CASE TRUST unable to do anything to them!!!!
I have filed in CASE, after 2 months, the PIC told me GMC refused to reply or unable to contact them. The CASE PIC advised me to go for SCT.
I know will be very time consuming, & cannot assure the result, It's not the money matter.... but we just cannot let such company go on like this....
After cheating a lump sum, they will just change the company name & director, & continue with their scam again & again!!! this will never end!!!!
Why can't government do something about such company??
Hi Summoni,
I too wonder why the goverment is not doing anything. They can catch chefs who take bribes from supplier but this one they leave all alone.
Hopefully one of us paves the way that the others can follow.
In the mean time we should just keep going and share our experinces with others so that they will not be cheated.
Hi Tommorrownevercomes2009,
I am curious to know what is your case with either GMC or Simths & baron or which TS group.
GMC
Did you manage to get back your money or what method did you try?
Hello everyone,
I am also one of the victim of S&B. It happened just 2 days ago. After reading all your post here, I guess I need to be prepared that my money isn't going to be back (make my heart hurts, you do all the work in your power to earn the money and it's just gone like that). You guys are singaporean or already stay in singapore longer than me and my husband. I, myself just came to singapore 2 weeks ago and already been one of the victim of this heartless people.
As I read some of your experience here, I've done the necessary acts like sending cancellation contract letter (via registered mail and also fax it to them). I went to CASE office to make sure what should I do (because I am here as a tourist, as for me and my husband just getting married 2 weeks ago). But they said, they can do anything to help, they need my husband to come because he is the one who has singapore's permit.
I am really pissed off by this kind of company. And concern why is the government let this company operate and has no law to protect the consumer.
Any suggestion that maybe there's anything else I and my husband should do?
Hi Chantiq,
Like you we are victims too of Smiths & baron. The suggestion of what to do are all here. I also recommend that you keep track of all that you have done or talked while it is still freah in your mind. Keep a journal. That way it would be easier to recall.
It seems that people then to look up the forum after they had fallen into Smiths & baron's scam. Try to tell others so that they do not fall for such scams.
There are others who join other forums to pass on this message.
If there is any success in our outcome we intend to share it, so that others have a chance to get their money back.
Chantiq - go to the Small Claims straight away - they have tourist cases - i.e they will try to hear your case within 24 hours - if you are indeed a tourist. File your claim - if both you and your husband signed up, then the claim should be in both your names and you will both have to do it together.
Kena - got my $ back! Not everything but better than nothing.