Hi KenaScam,
I've went to CASE. They told me they will send a letter to Smiths and wait for their reply.
So did you paid the full amt, or just the deposit only? For your case, they only replied upon receiving your 2nd letter. So they could do the same thing to me.
If the waiting ends up in nothing, then i might consider going straight to STC as i dun want to pay the installments for nothing as well.
Hi mindeye,
What I mean is that is that this is to me a case of cheating. They use a selling method to sell us a product that is not able to deliver. In my opition, if they have the intention to cheat and method to cheat then it is cheating, not CPFTA. If you see their mode of operation you will understand. Under CPFTA their offence is taken lightly, hence they can just go and set up another company and start their business again. If this were to be a crime, then it would be a different story. Because CPFTA does not charge the person abusing it. That is why I say that they are hiding under CPFTA.
If you can recall, there was this scam some time ago where people tried to trick old people into parting with their money buying items that was useless. Some worthless items that they said would make them money fast. They were charged with cheating. However, if they had drawn up a contract with the victims then it would be CPFTA instead of cheating . Is this a crime or abuse of CPFTA.
Do you get where I am coming from?
Most importantly, if anyone is going to SCT, could we do it together? I think there is strength in numbers.
Hi KennaScam,
I just signed up with S&B and do not use their service yet. In T&C of their contract saying that "The purchaser confirms irrevocable with this signature, that he agrees to the terms and condition of this legal and binding contract" Can I join you to go to SCT in order to get refund of my deposit? I paid my deposit of SGD 1,500 but has not piad them for 1st installment yet. You may reply to me at my address "[email protected]"
Hi Letmevoice.
Case has just sent the third letter to S&B. I am waiting to see what they reply. I think I wil let Case see this through before I go to SCT. It is my next option if Case fails.
On your situation, you need to have a reason to ask for your refund. I my case it is false claims. They may not return your deposite if there is no reason.
Are you within the 5 working days? Maybe you can cancel. Or you can say that their sales tactics presured you into buying. Did they give you a copy of CPFTA? Maybe you can look into it and see if they had violated any of it.
My suggestion is that you hold on to paying the first installment. This way you don't lose more money.
Another suggestion is that you can ask them to refund you as there has been a lot of negative feedback with regards to their company and show them this web-site.
But if you need a person to go with you to SCT or Case as anothe victim of S&B then I can be there for you.
Like I said before, I think this should be stopped.
Hi Letmevoice,
I think i am in the same situation as you. Paid for the deposit and has not use their service yet. My first installment deduction is on 1st Dec. Oh no...
Did the staff there tell you that they can book for you using their account as you have not paid for the full membership?
I already paid in full. That is only when I found out that they misclaim their discounts. The amount given is more or less the same at any travel agency. They promise about 50%, you will not even get 25%. Their web site is still not up and if you ask for their name card they will say finish, send for printing. If you had not paid up and already had a look at what they can offer against what they promised then you are lucky. You can use this to say that they had not given what they had promised. Again, I suggest that you dont pay the first instalment first.
So go and get a quote from their official travel agency, Concept Travel Services and compare it with others. Then with this quotation, get hard copy, maybe you can cancel your contract.
It would be better if you check with Case. The above is my opition only. Case knows better.
I have sent my cancellation letter within the 5 working days. However, S&B replied that they are not a time-share company, thus the CPFTA does not applied to them!! You can see where they are hidding.
I approached CASE. They are helping me to draft another letter to them indicating that CPFTA applies to companies that operates in a time-share like manner. I'm waiting for their reply.
Guess this will not be easy as they are clearly making use of the loop hole in our law.
Victim of S&B, Kena Scam and Letmevoice,
Another victim of S&B today (just a few hours ago) - Me and my hubby! I've was offered the 7k package for 10 years and I've just placed a 2k deposit. I should have listened to my instincts in the first place. I'm gonna terminate the installments but will also like to join you guys and raise a case. What is enough grounds to be able to raise a case? I've not asked them for any quotation yet? Please advise. 2k is a lot of money to us but I was thinking that it might have been a worthy investment and apparently after reading all this, it isn't! HELP! Thanks. By the way, my contract doesnt say anything about cancelling within 5 working days.
Hi Carolroz,
If your contract is same as mine, then it is stated in point 6. By right they should give you a consumer protection (fair trading) Act 2003 (Act 27 of 2003) printout. This is a few pages long. The notice to cancel is in the third page from the back. Please see it, if not, then send me your e-mail and I wll scan and e-mail you back the above. They should have told you about the cancellation option. But then there is a lot that they should have told us.
Also to all, do take not of all you communication with them and document it. It seems that the process of refund or so on will take a lot of time and as the facts are still clear in our mind, it is best to do it now.
hi,
I was reading the FAQ and came across this question:
What happen if HITs - Concepts Travel Services quutes me a higher price?
Ans: You need to produce a genuine quotation from the Travel Agency where you managed to obtain a cheaper quote. Once this information is verified and found to be true, we will then beat the price. In short, we have a price guarantee.
I'm wondering if this doesn't happen, whether we can take this to CASE but this is not stated in the contract, only in the FAQ sheets.
And also, even if they can beat the price, it may not be within the discount range they initially promised.
Hi Kena Scam,
Thanks for the information. I didn't see anything about cancellation in Point 6 or in any part of my contract.
Is this the part in the consumer protection act you are referring to?
Right to cancel certain contracts within cancellation
period
11. —(1)
The
Minister may make regulations prescribing that a consumer who, in
relation to a consumer transaction, has entered into a contract
falling within any class of contracts specified in the regulations
may cancel the contract within a cancellation period specified in
the regulations.
If I'm wrong, please email to [email protected].
By the way, what is your package?
Thanks!
Hi Caroloz,
I guess we are in the same situation. I just signed up with them about 2 weeks ago too. Mine was $9K for 15 yrs. Paid deposit of $2K. I only have the contract (3 pages), FAQ, Booking Form, and a Brochure.
No consumer protection (fair trading) Act 2003 was given to me and never mention anything about cancellation. And b4 we signed the contract, i still asked them whether i can cancel after signing, the contract executive said NO.
I send them Notice of Cancellation within the 5 day period. They reply me saying that they are not a timeshare co. Therefore the Notice of Cancellation is not applicable.
So i went to CASE. CASE will send a letter to them pointing out the fact that we have already send the the Notice of Cancellation withing the time period. So waiting for S&B reply.
So i think you better send them the Notice of Cancellation form by registered post so that you can back up as an evidence.
Hi Kenascam,
Can you send me a copy of the consumer protection (fair trading) Act 2003? Thanks! My email is [email protected]
Hi Caroloz, I have sent you a copy of the contract with the point 6. Also I have a piece of paper with S&B letter head giving me a price guarantee that they will offer a cheaper price. But you are right, cheaper does not mean that the price will be what discount they offered.
If I am not wrong, this company is part of Garraway enterprise. If so they were issued an injunction a couple of months back. Please go to the Case website for more info on this Garraway enterprise. http://www.case.org.sg/
Hi all - in 2005, the Public Prosecutor took one Tan Miah Soong to task and successfully prosecuted him for cheating under the Penal Code for timeshare scam because his victims filed compliants to the Commercial Affairs Department. (Reported case [2005] SGDC 97)
Most of the timeshare companies are all related one way or another - it is a shell game - you start off with one, then say that the first co is in trouble and persuade people who signed up with the first to sign up with a second co, collect more money, then say that the second co is in trouble or offer some super attractive money back cash reward scheme which no one seems to understand (how does $5,000 become $50,000 in 2 years?! Come on! If it were so easy, there would be no poor people!) to get people to sign up for the third saying things like no one is authorised to cancel your agreement with the second co but the third etc and collect more money for their "service"..... it is never ending.
Have not heard of them daring to sue in the Courts if their "members" dont pay the instalments or so called balance on the agreements, although they always threaten to - cos it is unlikely they'd be able to present a case since they are scamming people anyway, and would not want to expose themselves in the legal arena that way. They do however harass and threaten and go to the extent of scaring people with legal terms or say that your children will have to bear the financial burden - and most people for some reason or other cant think straight at that point and end up paying more and more.
Maybe pp can join and find a lawyer to file a class case? Can spread cost and see outcome to put a stop to it all.
Before you buy - THINK - will you really spend that much if you were to pay as you go? Do you really save? Does it really cost that much if you were to go to a proper travel agent? How much did you spend on your holidays so far? Just remember, there is no free lunch so any incentive such as promises to sign u up for cash rewards and all are just mere promises. Why do they need you to sign that you signed up because you were comfortable and not under duress? Why are their agreements all about payment only and how they will come after you if you dont pay? Why are the most important terms to you as a consumer - like details of what you get are so vague? THINK! Has anyone actually gone on holiday with the package?
Good Luck!
CANCELLATION OF TIMESHARE
One more scam - if you manage to contact the co within the "cooling off period", like say the next day, (that is if the phone no. they gave you is not engaged), they will likely tell you that they cannot see you until, hmmm let's guess, on the last day of the cooling off period. "Oh yes," they tell you, "...don't worry about sending us notice of your cancellation in writing or by post cos Singpost is not reliable and might get lost...just come see us on the appointed time and we will sort you out....". Yea right.
Send in your cancellation notice immediately - send it by registered mail for proof that the mail was sent and fax it in if you can too.
On the day of the meeting, just be very careful. They will persuade you to rethink - is it because it is too expensive? dont worry, we can help. Lower the payments, sign you up for more comfortable instalments, short periods etc. Come, let us amend the agreement - dont you worry. Wait here while we reprint the documents..... oh here they are - see, as we promised, here are the new terms which we said we'd offer you.... lower payments, shorter period, cheaper package...... ah ..... just sign here. Great. You have been a great customer.
JUST so you know ...... they have just scammed you again. You could have effectively cancelled under the CFTA but they made you resign and backdated the agreement to the date you signed the first agreement , making it appear that you signed it way back and you are now out of the cooling off period.
Dont believe them when they tell you they are not covered because they are timeshare or they are not timeshare. It does not matter at this stage - cos you dont really know and cannot ascertain. They will call themselves whatever, depending on what suits them in the situtation just to stop you getting your money back and taking action against them. Just give them written notice and take legal advice. Dont wait. If it isnt, your lawyer will advise you on your obligations. And if it is, you served notice properly within the cooling off period and strengthen your case. All you lose (other than the money you already paid) is the price of a stamp.
I am also a victim of S & B. I hope to gather each and everyone of you who are victims to join forces with me to lodge a claim against them at the small claims tribunal. With more people lodging complaints against them, the magistrate will then order investigations against S&B. Let's do it fast- please do not hesitate to contact me at [email protected] to meet up and discuss further on this.
Hi, I came across this on the web. If we join forces and lodge complaints against S & B, CASE will take this up with S&B. I appeal to all those who are victims to come forward to join me (email: [email protected]) in this.
http://www.case.org.sg/downloads/C@SEBites/C@sebites%20Special.htm
1) CASE takes out injunction proceedings against a timeshare company
CASE TAKES ACTION AGAINST ORION’S BELT NETWORK
For first time ever, CASE takes out injunction proceedings under the Consumer Protection (Fair Trading) Act
The Consumers Association of Singapore (CASE) is taking out injunction proceedings against Orion’s Belt Network, a timeshare company that also provides timeshare termination services, for repeatedly breaching the Consumer Protection (Fair Trading) Act (CPFTA). This is the first time ever CASE is taking injunction proceedings against a company, as authorised under the CPFTA where CASE is empowered to protect consumers against unfair practices.
Early this year, CASE became concerned that Orion’s Belt Network, which had been in business only since January 2005, had received similar complaints against it within a short span of time. The company would offer to terminate timeshare contracts on behalf of consumers, for a fee. Subsequently, the consumers would find out that their contracts had not been terminated or that they could have terminated their own contracts in writing.
After receiving the seventh filed complaint against Orion’s Belt Network, CASE invited the company to sign a Voluntary Compliance Agreement in March this year. By signing the agreement, the company would:
Orion’s Belt Network delayed the signing of the agreement by asking for time to look into the filed complaints. However, the company pursued the complainants for payment instead of addressing the issues. CASE also continued to receive filed complaints against Orion’s Belt Network.
From July 2005 to August 2006, CASE received 14 filed complaints against Orion’s Belt Network for:
On 21 September, CASE issued a final reminder to Orion’s Belt Network to sign the Voluntary Compliance Agreement. Orion’s Belt Network did not respond by the deadline of 9.00am, 25 September. CASE is taking immediate action against the company.
Firstly, I would like to highlight all the bloggers left comments on the topic based on fake names. If u r a member of GMC and had bad experience regarding the unsatisfactory services, why waste ur time blogging here and heed unprofessional advices on the unknown bloggers (they cn be as fake online and real life).
Have the initiative to write in to the officials in GMC before consulting CASE or even Small Claims Tribunals. Do you hv any idea what is the process you have to go through? The money involved engaging them. Why in the first place you need to go CASE? You signed the agreement with GMC and you pay to GMC. Your money that you have invested to GMC. I believe they have officers to assist you. If it was a scam, try calling them now. There will be no answer to all your calls. Or try email to them, if it was a scam, there will be no one to reply to your emails.
Stop listening to these unknown bloggers online, known as only "Summonli" who suggested to report your case to CASE TRUST? Don't you all have a mind or brain to think for yourself then listen to other unknown bloggers? If they comment they have bad experienced with GMC, do you know if they are telling the truth? Have you, as a member tried the services for yourself? If it was true to be unsatisfactory.
It is funny why Singaporeans only comment on the negative only. Where all the positive comments (Oh! People keep it to themselves) Typical.
For those who cannot afford to purchase the membership, please do not brag online talking about other sales people and their managers. They market the product, not conned people. For "Race29", maybe you are just a gift hunter. By reading thru your posts, it is very obvious.
mindeye33@gmail .com. Another blogger who has not believe in himself. Use an unknown name and comment negativity online. Sure, nobody will know you.
Race29. Are you racist? Are all staffs malay? How sure are you? How many consultants attended to you? Oh my, if it was only me and my spouse attend a presentation with 5 or more consultants in a room to persuade us to join, OF COURSE i'll be so scared. But obviously I believe it was just the consultant and the clients and mayb the manager.
Kena Scam, before you advise people to cancel the contract. Do you even know exactly what is the laws under the Consumers Act? It is not 3 working days. Go get your facts right before you even advise other people.
For Bahterasy, I suggest you email or call them for further clarification.
To mindeye again, were you even a member of GMC? GMC don't care? don't even bother to reply you? it seems that you are not even a member. because i believe they entertain members only. And if you are a member, it seems that you're the only they don't reply to.
Surfer1041. You do not talk like you are educated. Cancel Membership must go straight to Small Claims Tribunals? You know how tideous the process. Go get all your facts right first lah.
It seems that I am the only one against all the posts here. You guys must be wondering whether mayb I am an employee of GMC. I have done my homework and I am a happy member of GMC since October 2009. It has past my cooling off period and I am booking for my next trip. During presentation, before you signed any agreement, get all the facts and benefits and discounts right. Well I did, I get my discounts and I am happy.
Their staffs in the travel department are very helpful. I liaise directly with Ms Hanis, the manager. She has been very helpful. I did not liaise or tried calling the Sales Consultants because obviously they are busy attending with the clients. So other enquiries regarding my membership cards and agreement, there will other staffs attending to me. Best of all, when I call in, the receptionists will always answer my call.
I am open to all your replies. It will be my pleasure to answer to all if I am capable of. For members, you may call GMC because I am one of the happy members of GMC.
My agreement No. GMC-89101401
I dont think you can go to Small Claims if it is timeshare and not for the cooling off period. So it will be better to get proper legal advice fast after you send your notice of cancellation in any event. Prob have to spend some money and file in the Subordinate Courts and not waste more time.
Good Evening Myra Alkadry,
I have been patiently waiting for someone from Smiths & Baron to come into this forum. The only thing you have to say about me is "It is not 3 working days. Go get your facts right before you even advise other people." Do you? How many is it? 5 like stated in the contract or is it still 3 like stated in the CPFTA.
Don't go about and call people names. By the way, your name does not seem Singaporean. Is it yours? Or are you going to call me racist?
You are from GMC. Can you give me examples of your wonderful usage with them?
It is not if people can afford the package or not. It is a company scamming people, like the manager and sales personnel at Smiths & Baron. They say they can offer you so much but can't even give half of what they promised.
You can say what you want. But me, I will still go on and try and get my money back.
The facts don't lie. Whatever you mentioned is not the truth. There is the Case website, why don't you go there and state your "love" for GMC there.
I will follow gh5128, we should go together in numbers and thank you Tommorrownevercomes2009 for your information.
Btw Myra,
why is it that the GMC website has only testimonials from people with e-mail address that end with yahoo.com.sg?
If I were you, I'd be worried.
HI Kena Scam - thanks for your explanation on what it means by hiding under CPFTA. I now have a better understanding of it. I also checked with CASE if a group of us with similiar unpleasant experiences with the same company (GMC or S&B) to go together to the small trial court. CASE told me that that court is for individual clients only. But if we all file on the same day, one after another, and get hearings consecutively, the impact will be there.
I also want to stop the instalment payment - but I understand that the credit card already paid these companies in full - and the installments we are paying, is a independent contract between us and the bank - nonetheless, let us share if any one have success doing it. I definitely will try
Hi Myra, it seems that you are so defensive of GMC that it appears that you are from GMC. Most people in this thread are talking about their negative experiences with that company, and would want their money back. In your case, if you are happy with your experience with them, then good thing for you. It was money well spent for you. I would even propose that you start a thread on how great your vacation was. Just be mindful of the other people who are experiencing stress because of how GMC has been treating them. I do hope that you are educated enough to respect the opinions of other people.
The money we invested or paid to GMC is hard earned money and it is imperative to get that money back if our reasons against the agreement or contract holds water that is why I am urging those who have valid issues with GMC to file a case against them in SCT. From my experience, GMC seemed to ignore the letters or calls CASE gave them since we didn't get any feedback from them, that is why I proceeded to file my case with SCT.
Hi All,
I think mindeye has a good idea. Maybe we can wait with all our appeals via Case to end and then if unsuccessful, we could go to SCT together and go through with what Case had suggested. The admin fee is$30, I think, check with SCT website. Maybe when we go down, we can call the papers as well. Might as well go get media coverage as well.