Out of curiosity (II)
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Idiotics at work.
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The thing is, just because the people who give health advices here are not professionals doesn't mean that they're quacks. The way I see it, there's nothing wrong in sharing some information which you may have from personal experience or from reading of articles.
In addition, while not everyone here may be a professional, there are people here with at least a working knowledge of first aid, CPR, and the like. They're not qualified to give a full medical opinion, but they can give suggestions and their personal viewpoints on all things medical.
If anyone cares to know, I was a combat medic specialist in the SAF. I'm not a doctor, and I'm not qualified to give diagnoses. However, I'm allowed to make my own evaluations out in the field and put forth my opinion on what the casualty is suffering from. For example, if the casualty seems to be suffering from a broken lower leg, I'll note down 'suspected tibia/fibula fracture' for the MO to further evaluate.
Heck, once I got a soldier come up to me to say that he had problems urinating. After looking through the symptoms, I suspected it was more than just an ordinary urinary tract infection and suspected gonorrhoea instead. I had him sent to the medical center, who sent him on a clinic specialising in STDs (the one at Kelantan Road). My suspicions proved correct, and it really was gonorrhoea.
What I'm trying to say is that in this place, people may give medical opinions. Just because I give my opinion doesn't make me a quack. If anything, it gives the patient an idea of what he's suffering from and what he should do.
That said, this forum should just serve as a means to educate and inform people on health matters. Any postings here should never be taken in lieu of true medical evaluation. While I felt that the guy was indeed suffering from gonorrhoea, I still had him evacuated to the nearest medical center anyway. Bottom line... if you're ill, you should still go to your doctor for a full evaluation.
I hope the moderators can come up with disclaimers or something. -
i guess the key issue is the absence of disclaimers. While most people are sensible enough to seek a professional's opinion, there may be some very young or not very sensible folks reading the forum who may not, and take for granted whatever advice given IS the diagnosis.
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what's the purpose of reactivating this thread?
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While they need to come up with the disclaimers, I don't see why fymk should be so concerned about whether one has qualifications.
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Enough is enough
FYMK, you have gone from pointing out the danger of quacks online to blatently doubting, near scorning, the credibility of the moderators in this forum, some of whom are medical professionals
Are moderators in Aunt Agony professional councellors?
Are moderators in SAF forum all signed on officers?
Are moderators in the Maple forum all creators of the game? -
Omg, I hope nobody takes the advice I dish out in sgforums seriously.
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I have no more say in this thing. To think that a disclaimer could cause so many problems. The only regret - we have lost 2 people who sincerely want to help.
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I can't believe how far can some people go...
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dun care lar.. some people are meant to be idiotics.. if not there is no ying and yang..
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I want to thank you all for your support. I hope this forum won't have any hard times in the future.
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This is good . Gazelle , two wrongs don't make a right .
You know that don't you? You complained that what stays in one forum should really stay in that forum when thinkdifferent locked it down . Then you re-open it here . Don't suppose you are going to shut the thread when I come in and debate against your favor ?
So what is right and what is wrong?
Good for you fudgester , combat medic specialist means you have some training and that counts for something. You have practical experience assessing and evaluating people , not just reading from the medical book when you are a child or asking mommy for professional advice . And besides you have authorisation from the army to perform your practice on military personnel. It can be akin to registration of healthcare and medical professions .
mystiv , now I said fair is fair- read a little closer at what I said in other topic , I did say that some of them maybe healthcare professionals or even med/healthcare students , judging from their answers but thinkdifferent is not from what she has said in Just out of curiosity PART 1. The other point being that no one in SAF or Aunt agony actually did imply they are qualified personnel , unlike this one. She is implying she is qualified to give answers when she is not - check the definition of a quack . And if the other moderators are truly qualified - it is a judgement issue for them .Originally posted by mystiv:Enough is enough
FYMK, you have gone from pointing out the danger of quacks online to blatently doubting, near scorning, the credibility of the moderators in this forum, some of whom are medical professionals
Are moderators in Aunt Agony professional councellors?
Are moderators in SAF forum all signed on officers?
Are moderators in the Maple forum all creators of the game?
I posed the question to thinkdifferent about her background and she didn't even say anything about practice at all except she asked doctor mommy a question and she won awards for hippotherapy when she was 16.
SAF Forum - that can be NS men - they are part of the SAF ( Singapore Armed Forces)
Aunt Agony - everyone knows that it is usually a gossip does he love me or not type of column
Like ShrodingersCat said , key issue - disclaimer.
key issue is safety . Why shouldn't I as the public be concerned ? Virtual clinic is implying a qualified medical doctor is assisting in enquiries - that makes it a legal issue .
ndmmxiaomayi - you really know how to flame a person despite saying that you are neutral . Does that make me any worse than you? Not really. I was just highlighting facts.
http://www.jmir.org/2000/3/e17/
Read it and see what I mean .Read the last line then. Thinkdifferent , I think u also better read it. That comes from good ole USA - lawyer country . You did say you work for the legal side right , thinkdifferent? You should know this then.
Anyways any doctor worth his salt would just say ok fine , u have this problem - come in and see me .
Go ahead and call me an idiot . After all , I am the one registered and I am not putting anyone in danger . I am the one who says you should at least put a disclaimer as well as refer others to reputable websites written by REGISTERED AND QUALIFIED PROFESSIONALS WHO CAN PUT THEIR NAMES AND QUALIFICATIONS AS WELL AS RISK THEIR REPUTATIONS ( instead of just a "secret" - isn't that funny that one is so secretive about their profession ? ) , or ask them to see a doctor if you are not registered.
If any of you have any more comments, I am always happy to entertain them . -
wtf, new year also want to quarrel.
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NahOriginally posted by feelingblue:wtf, new year also want to quarrel.
just setting the record straight . -
I cannot believe how moderators can lock a thread which starts making their positions look bad somehow. First time I encountered it .Originally posted by thinkdifferent:I can't believe how far can some people go...
At least one thing for sure , Gazelle has the gumptions to actually answer back on all his forums even though we may not get along in other forums and he is under fire at times from others. You should learn to stick it out like him . -
agree x 2Originally posted by mystiv:Are moderators in Aunt Agony professional councellors?
Are moderators in SAF forum all signed on officers?
Are moderators in the Maple forum all creators of the game? -
Like I said ...they didn't imply that they are qualified .Originally posted by 798:agree x 2 -
Hmmm.
OK, I'm not going to flame here, I'm just going to put my points across.
Re: Aunt Agony and SAF Forums. To some extent, as fymk has said, Aunt Agony is exactly that - it's a whinge spot in the same vein as the agony aunt columns that originated in newspapers, not a counselling service. Keep in mind that Miss Manners falls under the agony aunt category, and that can hardly be considered as counselling. As for the SAF Forums, is anybody going to conduct an airborne drop based on what they learn from the forum? I think not.
The difference here is the tendency for people to indiscriminately act upon medical advice regardless of the source or context. All of us on an individual level will of course say, "I'm not that stupid", but the article that fymk posted a link to shows that we cannot count on everybody to be so wise.
As such, we have an obligation to treat this sort of thing responsibly, beginning with disclaimers.
For what it's worth, we're all subject to the same rules. I've had people from Agony Aunt PM me and ask me serious questions, and I always act according to my professional obligation to let them first know the limits of what I can tell them. More often than not, I refer them on to people I know in the clinical or counselling psychology fields - I'm an organisational psychologist and I'm not going to even pretend to be able to do my clinical or counselling peers' job.
It's very simple: Primum Non Nocere - first, do no harm. If there's any chance that someone might act upon information that may not be correct, action must be taken to prevent this from happening, be it the use of disclaimers, referring people to qualified professionals or witholding information. It's the only responsible thing to do. -
neither do here the mods say they are overly qualified either. next time before you tried to make a fool of others by opening up flame topics, you must bear of the outcome.Originally posted by fymk:Like I said ...they didn't imply that they are qualified .
anyway, chinese new year today, hope everyone can be 'xin ping qi he' -
Yes , maybe opening the topic in another forum may be a bad idea. That may be a bad judgement on my part I admit.Originally posted by 798:neither do here the mods say they are overly qualified either. next time before you tried to make a fool of others by opening up flame topics, you must bear of the outcome.
anyway, chinese new year today, hope everyone can be 'xin ping qi he'
However I didn't start with flaming - check what I said in the first post of Just out of curiosity . I only asked - take a look for yourself . The first post was asking about the qualifications . And I was accused of being a clone . Naturally the human thing to do is to answer back .
I bear my own consequences . Yes I admit I might not be right always. However I don't see the person involved even giving an answer like that. That infuriates me .
It is because of people like these, I see patients delay treatment and one died on me - read what I said in the topic which the moderator has closed . If I can do my part by questioning them and maybe getting a huge disclaimer across which is a fairly easy thing to do for thinkdifferent to type out will do but instead she has chosen to prove how knowledgeable she is instead of trying to put a disclaimer out there as a sticky asap. -
Originally posted by fymk:
This is good . Gazelle , two wrongs don't make a right . You know that don't you? You complained that what stays in one forum should really stay in that forum when thinkdifferent locked it down . Then you re-open it here . Don't suppose you are going to shut the thread when I come in and debate against your favor ?
So what is right and what is wrong?
Good for you fudgester , combat medic specialist means you have some training and that counts for something. You have practical experience assessing and evaluating people , not just reading from the medical book when you are a child or asking mommy for professional advice . And besides you have authorisation from the army to perform your practice on military personnel. It can be akin to registration of healthcare and medical professions .
mystiv , now I said fair is fair- read a little closer at what I said in other topic , I did say that some of them maybe healthcare professionals or even med/healthcare students , judging from their answers but thinkdifferent is not from what she has said in Just out of curiosity PART 1. [b] The other point being that no one in SAF or Aunt agony actually did imply they are qualified personnel , unlike this one. She is implying she is qualified to give answers when she is not - check the definition of a quack . And if the other moderators are truly qualified - it is a judgement issue for them .
I posed the question to thinkdifferent about her background and she didn't even say anything about practice at all except she asked doctor mommy a question and she won awards for hippotherapy when she was 16.
SAF Forum - that can be NS men - they are part of the SAF ( Singapore Armed Forces)
Aunt Agony - everyone knows that it is usually a gossip does he love me or not type of column
Like ShrodingersCat said , key issue - disclaimer.
key issue is safety . Why shouldn't I as the public be concerned ? Virtual clinic is implying a qualified medical doctor is assisting in enquiries - that makes it a legal issue .
ndmmxiaomayi - you really know how to flame a person despite saying that you are neutral . Does that make me any worse than you? Not really. I was just highlighting facts.
http://www.jmir.org/2000/3/e17/
Read it and see what I mean .Read the last line then. Thinkdifferent , I think u also better read it. That comes from good ole USA - lawyer country . You did say you work for the legal side right , thinkdifferent? You should know this then.
Anyways any doctor worth his salt would just say ok fine , u have this problem - come in and see me .
Go ahead and call me an idiot . After all , I am the one registered and I am not putting anyone in danger . I am the one who says you should at least put a disclaimer as well as refer others to reputable websites written by REGISTERED AND QUALIFIED PROFESSIONALS WHO CAN PUT THEIR NAMES AND QUALIFICATIONS AS WELL AS RISK THEIR REPUTATIONS ( instead of just a "secret" - isn't that funny that one is so secretive about their profession ? ) , or ask them to see a doctor if you are not registered.
If any of you have any more comments, I am always happy to entertain them .
[/b]Originally posted by fymk:
Firstly, while I am neutral most of the time, if one goes overboard, I will flame. You have seriously gone overboard, and this results in me flaming you. If you find back most of my threads, I do have a neutral post. Except when I start meeting people like you, amicute and Salman. Whether or not I am worse than you, it's up to you to decide. In fact, I just feel that I am as bad as you.
This is good . Gazelle , two wrongs don't make a right . You know that don't you? You complained that what stays in one forum should really stay in that forum when thinkdifferent locked it down . Then you re-open it here . Don't suppose you are going to shut the thread when I come in and debate against your favor ?
So what is right and what is wrong?
Good for you fudgester , combat medic specialist means you have some training and that counts for something. You have practical experience assessing and evaluating people , not just reading from the medical book when you are a child or asking mommy for professional advice . And besides you have authorisation from the army to perform your practice on military personnel. It can be akin to registration of healthcare and medical professions .
mystiv , now I said fair is fair- read a little closer at what I said in other topic , I did say that some of them maybe healthcare professionals or even med/healthcare students , judging from their answers but thinkdifferent is not from what she has said in Just out of curiosity PART 1. [b] The other point being that no one in SAF or Aunt agony actually did imply they are qualified personnel , unlike this one. She is implying she is qualified to give answers when she is not - check the definition of a quack . And if the other moderators are truly qualified - it is a judgement issue for them .
I posed the question to thinkdifferent about her background and she didn't even say anything about practice at all except she asked doctor mommy a question and she won awards for hippotherapy when she was 16.
SAF Forum - that can be NS men - they are part of the SAF ( Singapore Armed Forces)
Aunt Agony - everyone knows that it is usually a gossip does he love me or not type of column
Like ShrodingersCat said , key issue - disclaimer.
key issue is safety . Why shouldn't I as the public be concerned ? Virtual clinic is implying a qualified medical doctor is assisting in enquiries - that makes it a legal issue .
ndmmxiaomayi - you really know how to flame a person despite saying that you are neutral . Does that make me any worse than you? Not really. I was just highlighting facts.
http://www.jmir.org/2000/3/e17/
Read it and see what I mean .Read the last line then. Thinkdifferent , I think u also better read it. That comes from good ole USA - lawyer country . You did say you work for the legal side right , thinkdifferent? You should know this then.
Anyways any doctor worth his salt would just say ok fine , u have this problem - come in and see me .
Go ahead and call me an idiot . After all , I am the one registered and I am not putting anyone in danger . I am the one who says you should at least put a disclaimer as well as refer others to reputable websites written by REGISTERED AND QUALIFIED PROFESSIONALS WHO CAN PUT THEIR NAMES AND QUALIFICATIONS AS WELL AS RISK THEIR REPUTATIONS ( instead of just a "secret" - isn't that funny that one is so secretive about their profession ? ) , or ask them to see a doctor if you are not registered.
If any of you have any more comments, I am always happy to entertain them .
[/b]
Now, I am seriously saying one thing: I am now flaming you.
Point by point I shall rebut you.
First point about Gazelle re-opening this thread. Two wrongs definitely don't make a right, and so do you. Gazelle didn't re-open this thread, it's you who started this thread right in another forum which thinkdifferent visits. Since it's locked, why do you start another one in the first place? And mind you, do you know the meaning of quack doctors? I don't and I won't bother to find out. I just know that quack doctors harms people.
Second point about fudgester being a combat medical specialist. While he is definitely experienced in this area, but he still refers the NS men to doctors. He doesn't diagnose them, he only suspects what is wrong, write a report and submit to the doctors. The doctors will then do a proper diagnosis. If he doesn't know much about medical field, can he do this? Practical experience although counts, knowledge still counts. Without knowledge, he can't do so.
Third point about thinkdifferent's background. May I ask you one question? Do you know what is privacy? She has a right not to say. In fact, I will not say if I were her. I have my rights, you have your rights. I shall not elaborate more on this point. It is very clear.
Fouth point about SAF and Aunt Agony forum. They may not be professionals, but so? They have their own experience to share, so that the future generations don't commit the same mistake. For Aunt Agony forum, it is not for gossip and those romance things. Please go and read through them. Most people do post serious advice.
About the disclaimer. If you had any ideas how busy doctors are, please wait. I believe they want to come up with a perfect disclaimer so that you have nothing to say.
The last point about calling you an idiot. If you don't mind, I shall call you that. -
Hey, I didn't accuse you of being a clone. I say I THINK that you are clone. I didn't accuse you. That's what I want to say. Thinking and blantantly accusing is different. Go read up on the law book. In fact, I recommend that you read detective books. They will show you the difference. Just like charging a person of a crime and arresting him for a crime is very different.Originally posted by fymk:Yes , maybe opening the topic in another forum may be a bad idea. That may be a bad judgement on my part I admit.
However I didn't start with flaming - check what I said in the first post of Just out of curiosity . I only asked - take a look for yourself . The first post was asking about the qualifications . And I was accused of being a clone . Naturally the human thing to do is to answer back .
I bear my own consequences . Yes I admit I might not be right always. However I don't see the person involved even giving an answer like that. That infuriates me .
It is because of people like these, I see patients delay treatment and one died on me - read what I said in the topic which the moderator has closed . If I can do my part by questioning them and maybe getting a huge disclaimer across which is a fairly easy thing to do for thinkdifferent to type out will do but instead she has chosen to prove how knowledgeable she is instead of trying to put a disclaimer out there as a sticky asap. -
Seriously, a disclaimer solves it all. I have a feeling both of you, fymk and mayi, are getting a little emotional here. Getting into things like 'accuse vs think' wouldnt solve the problem at all.
Other than a disclaimer, it would be good if the moderators here can post their qualifications. A disclaimer and qualifications thread would pretty much prevent most arguements in this forum. While i understand the need for privacy, i dont think its too much to ask for qualifications.
Another thing; i dont agree with the act of locking up topics before issues are resolved. By locking up the topic, there is an implication of the moderator being unable to answer, and just wanna escape from the question. Not that extreme in this case, of couse, but im just pointing out. Solve the issue properly before locking it. Unless, of course, its idiots who post things like 'I love sex' or something -
Qualifications can be faked. I can easily faked mine with photoshop.
About the disclaimer: Seriously, if the moderators disappeared one by one, no one can put it up.
Locking up doesn't mean one cannot answer. It can also mean one doesn't want to continue with the argument. If one idiot decides to start another same thread after thread is closed, I have nothing to say. I will just start flaming. Like what I did in amicute's thread about Singaporean Chinese.
There's a limit in one's tolerance, going overboard and want to test them to see their reaction, one seriously need to see a psycologist.