Originally posted by Clivebenss:kiat lai (tiam) often refers to the groccery shop, proper Hokkien would be chap hei tiam.
tor kor often as of foreign owned business in local context.
ahh i see
so kiat lai tiam is the Hokkien equivalent
you know what? I don't have kedai equivalent in Hokkien but I have it in Teochew instead! In Teochew the form that I use, it becomes kek ai tiam thus i do not know it deviated from the original kedai pronunciation
Originally posted by BanguIzai:ahh i see
so kiat lai tiam is the Hokkien equivalent
you know what? I don't have kedai equivalent in Hokkien but I have it in Teochew instead! In Teochew the form that I use, it becomes kek ai tiam thus i do not know it deviated from the original kedai pronunciation
In downtown they use proper Hokkien chap hei tiam. Once in Katong and Eunos area the Hokkien there like to use kiat lai tiam. I suppose peranakan influence.
I heard kiat ai tiam and chup huay tiam
Originally posted by Clivebenss:In downtown they use proper Hokkien chap hei tiam. Once in Katong and Eunos area the Hokkien there like to use kiat lai tiam. I suppose peranakan influence.
Then how come the Teochew that I speak (originated from West Side) also has kek ai tiam? The West (from Jurong to Choa Chu Kang) doesn't seem to have peranakan influence.
Originally posted by hasene:I heard kiat ai tiam and chup huay tiam
oh, so u have also heard the "lai" without the "l" --> become "ai"
Originally posted by Clivebenss:In downtown they use proper Hokkien chap hei tiam. Once in Katong and Eunos area the Hokkien there like to use kiat lai tiam. I suppose peranakan influence.
The form of Teochew that I speak, even have a Malay form for "forest" (hutan) pronounced ou tang.
In Hokkien, I have never heard a borrowed Malay form for "forest". All along I speak is "ts'iu na"
Originally posted by BanguIzai:oh, so u have also heard the "lai" without the "l" --> become "ai"
yes.
Originally posted by BanguIzai:Then how come the Teochew that I speak (originated from West Side) also has kek ai tiam? The West (from Jurong to Choa Chu Kang) doesn't seem to have peranakan influence.
Choa Chu Kang, I know most are An Kuay. Jurong have large Teochew community.
Originally posted by hasene:
yes.
same same.
this is the 1st time I have heard the ai with an initial "l" as informed by Clivebenss
Originally posted by Clivebenss:Choa Chu Kang, I know most are An Kuay. Jurong have large Teochew community.
that's why I am very curious why did kedai entered into Teochew in the West Area, but did not enter Hokkien in most other areas.
same for hutan.
Originally posted by BanguIzai:The form of Teochew that I speak, even have a Malay form for "forest" (hutan) pronounced ou tang.
In Hokkien, I have never heard a borrowed Malay form for "forest". All along I speak is "ts'iu na"
In Hokkien secondary forest is "or tan". Primary forest is "chew nar".
Originally posted by BanguIzai:that's why I am very curious why did kedai entered into Teochew in the West Area, but did not enter Hokkien in most other areas.
same for hutan.
could be from the large Malay community in West Coast.
Originally posted by Clivebenss:In Hokkien secondary forest is "or tan". Primary forest is "chew nar".
My repertoire also dun haf "or tan". Whatever forest all is called "ts'iu na".
Whereas for kek ai tiam and tho kho , there indeed do have a difference as what you have mentioned.
Originally posted by Clivebenss:could be from the large Malay community in West Coast.
there is a great possibility.
Originally posted by BanguIzai:My repertoire also dun haf "or tan". Whatever forest all is called "ts'iu na".
Whereas for kek ai tiam and tho kho , there indeed do have a difference as what you have mentioned.
Seems these are lost words that was quite common until the mid 70s.
Originally posted by Clivebenss:Seems these are lost words that was quite common until the mid 70s.
then it is strange that Teochew can preserve kek ai tiam and ou tang till this day without losing them.
Originally posted by BanguIzai:then it is strange that Teochew can preserve kek ai tiam and ou tang till this day without losing them.
Hokkien are more prone to correct itself as of the infleunce of Taiwan. Guess Teochews are less prone to such corrections.
ok another verse from malay hokkien:
huan pang chow kuay ong
huan pang lang kuay song bong (sombong)
Originally posted by Clivebenss:Hokkien are more prone to correct itself as of the infleunce of Taiwan. Guess Teochews are less prone to such corrections.
I see.
Some more other Malay loanwords in Sg Hokkien via Baba/Nyonya:
liam ban from jamban
tsu ke from cukai
tong kat from tongkat
lo kun from dukun
in Teochew they are respectively dziam bang, tsu ke, tong kak, lau kung.
Originally posted by Clivebenss:ok another verse from malay hokkien:
huan pang chow kuay ong
huan pang lang kuay song bong (sombong)
I have som bong in my Hokkien too, meaning unfamiliarity.
can you add the tones to the rest to make them readable?
Originally posted by BanguIzai:I have som bong in my Hokkien too, meaning unfamiliarity.
can you add the tones to the rest to make them readable?
Huan pang (Nanyang) chow (grass) kuay (easy) ong(to grow)
Huan pang lang (people) kuay song bong (arrogant)
to insinuate someone that refuse to meet his lowly friends back home after success in Sg/SE Asia.
Originally posted by BanguIzai:I see.
Some more other Malay loanwords in Sg Hokkien via Baba/Nyonya:
liam ban from jamban
tsu ke from cukai
tong kat from tongkat
lo kun from dukun
in Teochew they are respectively dziam bang, tsu ke, tong kak, lau kung.
some say liam buan and tsu kay too.
Originally posted by Clivebenss:Huan pang (Nanyang) chow (grass) kuay (easy) ong(to grow)
Huan pang lang (people) kuay song bong (arrogant)
to insinuate someone that refuse to meet his lowly friends back home after success in Sg/SE Asia.
very interesting and thank you. next time can you indicate the tones for convenience sake if you are going to speak one chunk of text? at least indicate in Peh-Oe-Ji romanization or IPA 5-degree tonal contour so that I can read it more easily.
Originally posted by BanguIzai:very interesting and thank you. next time can you indicate the tones for convenience sake if you are going to speak one chunk of text? at least indicate in Peh-Oe-Ji romanization or IPA 5-degree tonal contour so that I can read it more easily.
I try, I not good with tones.
Originally posted by Clivebenss:I try, I not good with tones.
no problem, worst come to worst, help to indicate (high-level tone), (high-falling tone), (rising tone), (low level tone), (low falling tone), (high short clipped tone), (low short clipped tone)
these are the basic 7 tones of Amoy Hokkien