Singapore cracks down on anime piracy
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My mistake.Originally posted by hisoka:no i am saying even if you got the pple to help, i suspect the courts will be influenced to rule in "copyright" favour anyway.
But the F word still stands. I won't take it back. -
but i agree, i doubt you can get those experts to help eitherOriginally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:My mistake.
But the F word still stands. I won't take it back.
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If you were to buy anime liscene from japanese company.Originally posted by stellazio:But why is the law able to give them that authority?
Thats why i said, some businessman should capitalize on this odex case now, come in and dominate the market, essentially driving odex up the wall.
If only they could do something like an itunes system in singapore for anime.
It'll be popular even for kids.
You would only be able sell it 6months after the airing in japan is done.
The japanese wants to protect their own market too.
So itunes system would not work in this case.
IMO the main reason why odex is unable to get good sales from their dvds/vcds.
It is because on slow release. Not that much on quality.
Imagine you watching naruto episode 5 when people in other countries are like watching naruto 2456454654.
And for this, its not odex fault.
And i am sure if odex were to provide videos good quality.
80% of the community would still go ahead and dl. (Considering dl is still avaliable)
I am not believing the bullcrap from HWZ when people say they WILL buy odex products if they are of good quality.
We all like things that are free.
Just take this for instance, those people in HWZ say they like fansub more, and they appreciate what fansub is doing for them.
But hmm, just make a breif guess how many of them have ever donated to anime dling sites?
Yes, there will be some. But i boldly say only about 10~20% -
If that's the case, ODEX is dumb and stupid. A protective market doesn't give ODEX the right to sue. Trace to the root of the problem and solve it, and not taking unnecessary steps.Originally posted by Xephone_xenon:If you were to buy anime liscene from japanese company.
You would only be able sell it 6months after the airing in japan is done.
The japanese wants to protect their own market too.
So itunes system would not work in this case.
IMO the main reason why odex is unable to get good sales from their dvds/vcds.
It is because on slow release. Not that much on quality.
Imagine you watching naruto episode 5 when people in other countries are like watching naruto 2456454654.
And for this, its not odex fault.
And i am sure if odex were to provide videos good quality.
80% of the community would still go ahead and dl. (Considering dl is still avaliable)
I am not believing the bullcrap from HWZ when people say they WILL buy odex products if they are of good quality.
We all like things that are free.
Just take this for instance, those people in HWZ say they like fansub more, and they appreciate what fansub is doing for them.
But hmm, just make a breif guess how many of them have ever donated to anime dling sites?
Yes, there will be some. But i boldly say only about 10~20%
It's Japan who wants to protect her anime market, which directly cause these problems today. And ODEX is being an idiot for taking it out on users, rather than the one causing the problems. -
-__-Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:If that's the case, ODEX is dumb and stupid. A protective market doesn't give ODEX the right to sue. Trace to the root of the problem and solve it, and not taking unnecessary steps.
It's Japan who wants to protect her anime market, which directly cause these problems today. And ODEX is being an idiot for taking it out on users, rather than the one causing the problems.
Japan company TV TOKYO is the one that asked Odex to do the sueing.
I said this before. Singapore is just a bloody lab rat.
Once they see the sueing to be successful here. Eventually they will move on to other countries.
Again this is something that is not proven.
Which i believe. -
I say, we all Game Over liao. If it's proven, I will gladly scold them BI - Bloody Idiots.Originally posted by Xephone_xenon:-__-
Japan company TV TOKYO is the one that asked Odex to do the sueing.
I said this before. Singapore is just a bloody lab rat.
Once they see the sueing to be successful here. Eventually they will move on to other countries.
Again this is something that is not proven.
Which i believe.
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Erm, but dude, if they go hard on downloaders like now.Originally posted by Xephone_xenon:And i am sure if odex were to provide videos good quality.
80% of the community would still go ahead and dl. (Considering dl is still avaliable)
I am not believing the bullcrap from HWZ when people say they WILL buy odex products if they are of good quality.
We all like things that are free.
Just take this for instance, those people in HWZ say they like fansub more, and they appreciate what fansub is doing for them.
But hmm, just make a breif guess how many of them have ever donated to anime dling sites?
Yes, there will be some. But i boldly say only about 10~20%
And if they do provide better quality animes, don't you think people will buy em here rather then resort to buying online?
If you're gonna force people to a wall, at least give them an escape route to turn to.
Whats the use of just sending letters to people and fining them when you're not gonna improve yourself.
End of the day, odex will still die. -
Odex will not die.Originally posted by stellazio:Erm, but dude, if they go hard on downloaders like now.
And if they do provide better quality animes, don't you think people will buy em here rather then resort to buying online?
If you're gonna force people to a wall, at least give them an escape route to turn to.
Whats the use of just sending letters to people and fining them when you're not gonna improve yourself.
End of the day, odex will still die.
Their anime dvds/vcds sales are so bad that it cant get any worst.
Their main profit come from distributing animes in SEA region.
Even if people shout boycott odex and refuse to buy whatever they sell.
No use. -
quality is very important. thats why alot of ple choose to parrellel import the animes instead you would at least get those.Originally posted by Xephone_xenon:If you were to buy anime liscene from japanese company.
You would only be able sell it 6months after the airing in japan is done.
The japanese wants to protect their own market too.
So itunes system would not work in this case.
IMO the main reason why odex is unable to get good sales from their dvds/vcds.
It is because on slow release. Not that much on quality.
Imagine you watching naruto episode 5 when people in other countries are like watching naruto 2456454654.
And for this, its not odex fault.
And i am sure if odex were to provide videos good quality.
80% of the community would still go ahead and dl. (Considering dl is still avaliable)
I am not believing the bullcrap from HWZ when people say they WILL buy odex products if they are of good quality.
We all like things that are free.
Just take this for instance, those people in HWZ say they like fansub more, and they appreciate what fansub is doing for them.
But hmm, just make a breif guess how many of them have ever donated to anime dling sites?
Yes, there will be some. But i boldly say only about 10~20%
80%? i'll say this. there is a possibility, but at the same time, these are the same pple who wouldn't buy anyway. in total no help in sales. and so unless you mean that you gain profits from the sueing( which pple are accusing them of btw) there is no point in doing so cos they won't gain. in fact they will lose becuase they will lose pulicity.
Besides, i think 80% might be a tad too high a percentage. -
Apparently is TV TOKYO ask them sue.Originally posted by hisoka:quality is very important. thats why alot of ple choose to parrellel import the animes instead you would at least get those.
80%? i'll say this. there is a possibility, but at the same time, these are the same pple who wouldn't buy anyway. in total no help in sales. and so unless you mean that you gain profits from the sueing( which pple are accusing them of btw) there is no point in doing so cos they won't gain. in fact they will lose becuase they will lose pulicity.
Besides, i think 80% might be a tad too high a percentage.
And then they cannot reject.
AGAIN! its up to you to believe. Yay!! -
Ah ya the more i read in HWZ.
The more it will spoil my day only
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so... only anime titles under TV-Tokyo will be involved? or issit the alliance of anime producing tv stations in japan u said before?Originally posted by Xephone_xenon:Apparently is TV TOKYO ask them sue.
And then they cannot reject.
AGAIN! its up to you to believe. Yay!! -
The best way is to destory internet and all technological items so ppl would not be able to copy or download... -
ok, now it has gone so big that the whole world knows about it
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=41469 -
let the whole world laugh at us, that is why our media is ranked 154th in the world right?
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From their point of view it makes perfect sense what. Singapore has no consumer protection, no privacy laws, nothing. Our courts are also not independent.Originally posted by stellazio:Basket, why start with singapore man, why singapore.
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It is very sad. - Peter Go, ODEX Pte Ltd.
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HEADLINES HEADLINES
When local anime distributor, Odex began to crack down on rose almost as one to decry the action, never mind the important fact, that Odex had the law on its side.
Now the online row has taken a nasty turn as the more unsavoury elements of the Wild Wild Web take potshots (which is HWZ) at Odex company director, STEPHEN SING.
What is his crime?
They felt that he had gloated over his company's success in taking illegal downloaders to task. <------ stupid new paper never make any clear induction on what did he did!
Mr SING, soon found himself branded as the ''most hated man in Singapore's anime community'', as labelled by one blogger. (Just one. it appears to me, new paper has no idea, how many people hated Odex).
Unhappy Net citizens have posted his personal information (HWZ CSI) and photographs on a forum thread and on various blogs.
When some of them, went on the forums and threatened to beat him up and wanted to set fire to his house, <------- i need the peekure on beat his family, burn his family. he decided that, enough is enough. Worried for his and his family safety, Mr Sing aka noob decided to make a police report.
His comment: ''I'll just leave it to the police,''
''I'd rather not engage the forum members, because they are not going to react very well, to whatever i have to say. (yea, after you made such a remark - Hahahahaha!! I double-6-ed so many downloaders~ serve them right! Nope~ Me too busy sueing (sic) people~)
''Double-6'' is a gaming term which means hitting or striking an opponent.
Mr Sing is one of two directors in Odex. The other is managing director, Peter Go.
In june, Odex started to send out letters to Internet users whose accounts, were linked to illegal downloading activities. The deal is, they were made to sign a letter, in promising not to download any more animes series, and pay between $3000 to $5000, in reimbursement to the company.
Following the crackdown, forum members and other Net Citizens, manage to dug up information on Mr Sing's onlne activities - the forum he frequented, his educational background, and even his Sunday rountine.
One forum member even posted a picture of his wife.
Forum member jeff Koh, 29, an IT professional told The New paper (whose newspaper article which i have to edit because your work really looks a primary school homework, and lack in depth in terms of information and paragraph, oh well) that he felt that Mr Sing's comment on the issue of sueing people, was ''extremely unbecoming behaviour as a company director''.
he said that: ''Mr Sing mocks at the people whom run afoul of the nation's intellectual property law, whether due to ignorance or on purpose, (yaya. you never even produce the copyright proof that you have obtain the license for devil may cry, and you want to claim copyright, an act of double standard)
''He is supposed to be handling out justice (profit margins) and delivering proper education (better translation, and better front setting) to the next generation of young people(i will sue you if you downoad).''
A forum posting, by SeCtor 7, said this at a thread!!: To give out such comments, he is simplu gloating over other (sic) misfortune.... Mat the whole entire Singapore online community and anime lovers unite(count me out, i don't want to get sue) and turn turn the tide against Odex.''
A blogger named as Atalude (another dick sued by Odex), added that the flaming of Mr Sing, was a form of '' divine retribution'' for the way, how Odex has been cracking down on illegal downloaders.
But some of them disapprove of the flaming, One blogger, Impz, wrote this: Having display such childish manner, about downloading, and shouldn't we be more civil in looking at this matter, is not helping the online community in anyway ( sorry i had to edit his whole entire sentence, it just doesn't sound right! his exact words are, Being childish over this downloading and the words spoken is(are) really not (are really not,) putting community in a good light.
''What will people think of us? My bet is that we will be seen as a group of immature little punks that know nothing of the law and simply know how to flame.''( thank god, he is not in this forum, or i will mock at his english)
Mr Sing said that, he was shocked (ya right) that his comment n the forum had sparked off, such a huge reaction. (We hated you, what kind of reception, do you expect, a warm welcome, a civil debate, please oh my, what a noob).
He said: I wrote that comment, almost two months ago, so when my told me, what had been happening in that thread, i couldn't even remember it.'' (HUH what are you talking about, you are denying that you wrote that, blaming it on loss of memory, is that what you are trying to say?)
'TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT' (Please, the new paper, if you want to do some damage control, brush up on your english, please)
Mr Sing said that, he made that remark in response to his friend's invitation t meet up. Telling his friend, why couldn't he meet up at all, his reply was he is busying, taking people to court.
Mr Sing felt that his comments had been ''taken out of context''. (An fabulous display of what a noob would do, and his broken english can lead to. FLAMING!)
''Some bloggers have been posting irresposibly (we are hiding behind the screen to flame you, hey, is this the first time, Mr sing in a forum) because they think they can say anything, they want because they can do it anonymously,'' (-_-* you started to insult us and you expect us to be civil.......)
This period of time, has been a personal challenge for him, especially when it comes to meet up with some of the downloaders with ''a bad attitude''.
(ahhhhhhhhhhhhh i want a refund of my 80 cents)
''Most of the time,'' Mr Sing said, ''we want to help the downloaders, we want. But occasionallu, we meet those, who refuse to listen to us.(duh we are not your pet, we have a free mind) even though they have broken the law.''
He added that some of the downloaders even used vulgarities on him and tore up his namecards in a show of defiance. <------ did you do that, Xephone_xenon?
In hindsight, Mr Sing said that he must take some of the blame for his comments, because he gote ''carried away''.
On the flaming, he admitted that he was angry when he saw the postings for the first time on Monday.
''It's caused me , alot of stress for me and my friends, facing so much public hatred,'' he said. (Must be, his wife, whining to him about the posting of her photo in the forum)
''I think it has been a wake-up call and a lesson learnt - that any information that you posted online, however long ago, can come back and haunt you later.'' (Google is our friend, and you just got owned)
Lawyer Lim Seng Siew of Ong Tay and Partners, told The New Paper, that bloggers who post defamatory statements can be sued by the person defamed. It does not matter where the blogger or server is located.
H said: ''In the Odex situation, if the words and the pictures, are crafted (photoshop ftw) in a way that is harmful to that person's reutation, then there is defamation.
''The bloggers can avoid liability only if they can show that their statements are true or justifiable.''
Choice quotes by Odex (Stephen Sing and Peter Go)
http://anime.tedfox.com/2007/others/news/choice-quotes-by-odex-stephen-sing-and-peter-go
The forum link to his comment - http://aseancord.idasia.org/viewtopic.php?t=151
http://atalude.wordpress.com/2007/08/12/how-do-i-gotten-pwnt/
Mr Sing nick: xysing -
Has anyone notice this ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odex
Odex "Catching" Methodology
As of now, the method that Odex utilizes for IP harvesting is very similar to MediaSentry's (The company behind IP gathering used by the RIAA) technique.
Basically, they monitor file-sharing networks for infringements of the media. The gathering technique has been argued as "unlawful" and shouldnÂ’t be used as legal evidence, based on Dr. Johan Pouwelse' opinion, and was proven to be so on Dutch court[[5]].
This is due to the fact that, in order for Odex or any other company to retrieve a list of IP addresses that are sharing a specific file through the BitTorrent Tracker, the company itself must be connected to the Tracker as well, and in order for the company to obtain a positively confirmation that you are downloading or sending through the P2P network, the company itself must be part of the sharing process through either sending to the illegal downloader or recieving the illegal material from the illegal sharer. Which means, the company itself is also breaking the law.
Although Odex or any other firm can argue that they could have just connected to the Tracker to obtain the list of IP address without taking part in the uploading and downloading process through a customized BitTorrent client, it is impossible to prove that the IP in the list are all illegal downloaders or uploaders since Odex did not take part in the uploading or downloading process first hand. Which means, the ISP of the culprit must provide packets sent and received by the cultprit network to recontruct the media in question, which requires a network professional and a file recontruction expert, if the file happens to be destoryed in the "culprit's computer".
Due to the complexity of P2P file sharing system, it is impossible to prove that someone has completed an actual download of a certain file. A simple analogy would be that:
Mary (BitTorrent Tracker) is watching Joe (Uploader 1) and Tom (Uploader 2) passing half of their apples (bits and pieces of the file) from their individual basket (complete file) to Kelly (Downloader).
Mary then announces to everyone who is part of the apple passing (network) that Kelly now has a full basket of apples.
Jim (Odex), hiding in a corner, listening to what Mary is annoucing, suddenly declares that Kelly has stolen his special apple and decided to sue Kelly.
Jim's (Odex) only evidence is an "announcement" made by Mary (Tracker).
Kelly (Downloader) is unable to confirm that the apples she has in the basket are all "special apples" and not normal apples until she tastes them all. In Odex's case, both Kelly and Odex are unable to confirm that the media in question is really a real copyright infrigement media and not a random file with a similar name until they obtain and watch it.
Mary (Tracker), the provider of the grey evidence, is somehow not involved in the court case.
When Odex first sent out the legal letters, the time frame has allowed the illegal downloader to destroy the media in question. Solid evidence could therefore no longer be obtained, unless Odex is able to request the ISP to perform the above mentioned media reconstruction. Some argue that Odex should have just gone through the law enforcement channel and perform a house raid, but the problem lies in the fact that their so-called "evidence" is insufficient "evidence of infringement" in order for them to obtain a search warrant.
It had been revealed that ODEX have acquired court orders in order to obtain the private information of the users of the respective ISPs[3], basically forcing them to turn over the details of users who have been on the Internet, with the respective IP addresses during that certain time period. However, it is assumed that the ISP is not involved in the tracking process of the users download.
Not sure why the court allow and order the release of personal informations. Clearly we becoming the next NSA. Worst, our IC number can be freely use (like those in Korea-If you know what I mean) for other means (profiteering).
We need better way and place to safeguard our privacy. SG clearly not the place any longer -
LET ME EMPHASIS THIS, EVEN THEY ARE CONNECTED TO THE TRACKER, ALL OF OUR IP ADDRESS ARE BEHIND A STARHUB OR SINGTEL SERVER!!!!!!
THE IP ADDRESS REFLECTED ON THE TRACKER, WILL ONLY BE SINGTEL OR STARHUB OR PACNET SERVER
UNLESS YOU ARE CONNECTED TO IRC TO LEECH FILE, THEN YOUR IP ADDRESS WILL BE EXPOSE!!! -
sian man... this Odex is really getting too far. fining 3.5k per person, thousand over letters being sent meant that they are earning more than 3mil.
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If that bloody company really uses packet sniffing, I will make sure that their server go down or use up so much bandwidth such that they are going to pay for it.
I mean what I say. -
Careful, mayi. We dun want to see anything happening to you...
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hey people... don't let your anger get the better of you..
just boycott the guy's company...
let him go bankrupt
now.. isn't that a great way to take revenge?
and it's LEGAL!! -
"boy-cord" ?Originally posted by the Bear:hey people... don't let your anger get the better of you..
just boycott the guy's company...
let him go bankrupt
now.. isn't that a great way to take revenge?
and it's LEGAL!!