People who have not heard of Christ
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ya lo. its dumb. if you find that the christian view has no truth in it, then why do you get so mad? i guess u know that it is truth, thats why you feel so condemned?
Jesus loves you regardless, and will wait for you. -
It is like believers of Greek mythology condemn you to their Hades, then threaten you with the thunder bolt of Zeus .. wah lao .. I'm sure you all will shrug it off like fairy tale siah.
Just to add, even if you believe in Hell .. there is no Trinue God to judge you. Similarly no Saint Peter to welcome you at heaven gate. -
Rather, I was hoping other wont insult my beliefs, directly expressed or implied.
Actually, I am against this topic because the main discussions are about our ancestors. This topic does not discuss differences in different beliefs, but rather on what our ancestors believed in, and whether they are saved thru Christ.
And we know they all practised Buddhism, Hindusim and hosts of other beliefs still in practice today. That also include our Chinese New Year, which have its basis on ancient folklore!
Yes, this topic (hopefully will not go into insults and flaming) may have lots of intellectual discussions, but there are still underlying implications. There are links from ancestors to other beliefs, and talking about how they were saved or not is akin to slapping them, and others still present, in the face.
Why would one not feel offended? How can one not feel offended? In your views yes, its allright to discuss for certain reasons, but sensitivity remains top priority for topics that include other beliefs. Be mindful, its allright for Christians to discuss salvation on non believers, but its not a common held views. We can all say such topics would not lead to serious consequences in the short run, but antipathy against Christianity may build up. Countless of people will be reading this topics, they may not start going around bashing up Christians now, but their hatred may start building up...
Seriously, it need not to be calling a Muslim pig or naturalist to go to hell.
That is directly expressed insults. -
The naturalist will feel offended or you are offended?Originally posted by laurence82:Seriously, it need not to be calling a Muslim pig or naturalist to go to hell.
That is directly expressed insults.
Are you scared of Zeus' thunderbolts? What's more for someone who doesn't believe in anything supernatural?
Of course I'm not saying we kill the naturalist after condemning him to hell. The point is that the whole idea of hell doesn't mean anything to him, if anything it only deepen his conviction that religious people (especially christians) are irrational to believe in such an idea. You think he cares a damn whether you condemn him to hell or elevate him to heaven? -
Even other believers wont be scared if you say they will go to hell because they dont believe in Christ.Originally posted by Icemoon:The naturalist will feel offended or you are offended?
Are you scared of Zeus' thunderbolts? What's more for someone who doesn't believe in anything supernatural?
Of course I'm not saying we kill the naturalist after condemning him to hell. The point is that the whole idea of hell doesn't mean anything to him, if anything it only deepen his conviction that religious people (especially christians) are irrational to believe in such an idea. You think he cares a damn whether you condemn him to hell or elevate him to heaven?
But they wont feel indignant if you insulted them or implied their beliefs are wrong?
You sure you will receive no backlash?
You noe, sometimes, when i read such topics..i really emphathise with people who are anti Christ and come here to voice their anger... -
Of course insult is wrong, but no christian is going to chant 'you are bound for hell' and actually take pride in that.Originally posted by laurence82:But they wont feel indignant if you insulted them or implied their beliefs are wrong?
Let's be rational. According to the law of non-contradiction, they can't all be right. So I can't see why you cannot even imply their beliefs are wrong. You have to stand up to your own conviction.
Also try to see from their point of view, that God is perfect, we all sin, the wages of sin is death etc. -
Been following this forums for sometime, I wonder if Christians do see our point of views too.Originally posted by Icemoon:Of course insult is wrong, but no christian is going to chant 'you are bound for hell' and actually take pride in that.
Let's be rational. According to the law of non-contradiction, they can't all be right. So I can't see why you cannot even imply their beliefs are wrong. You have to stand up to your own conviction.
Also try to see from their point of view, that God is perfect, we all sin, the wages of sin is death etc.
I did say in the first place, religious difference will lead to certain diagreements, but must this kind of things be openly discussed and communicated to the general public, who are otherwise from many religions.
Even then, like I said, people need not resort to chanting or remarks made in poor taste to insult people nowadays. For others, it may be well construed sarcasm, in this topic, there are underlying implications. -
haha, i too wondered if Christians do see other points of views.. i doubt so since they proclaim there is not OTHER god. Reading thru this thread, I understand wat laurence is trying to say, pleading for more sensitivity towards other religions but others seems to be saying if u dun believe in Christ u wun be offended? so wat if I give the following example,Originally posted by laurence82:Been following this forums for sometime, I wonder if Christians do see our point of views too.
I did say in the first place, religious difference will lead to certain diagreements, but must this kind of things be openly discussed and communicated to the general public, who are otherwise from many religions.
Even then, like I said, people need not resort to chanting or remarks made in poor taste to insult people nowadays. For others, it may be well construed sarcasm, in this topic, there are underlying implications.
our ancestors nv heard of chirstianity, and practice religions such as buddhism/taoist that believe in heaven n hell as well and have last rites that 'send' the dead to the underworld.. would Christians tat die in our ancestors time(given buddhist/taosim funeral, thus sent to their version of the underworld) go to buddhist/taoism heaven? or do they go straight to hell?
so if u dun believe in buddhist/taosim version of hell/heaven, u wun be offended if i say all ur christian ancestors go to hell? -
nope
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I LOVE DINOSAURS.
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I already summarised this point in my first(?) reply.Originally posted by marlboro:haha, i too wondered if Christians do see other points of views.. i doubt so since they proclaim there is not OTHER god. Reading thru this thread, I understand wat laurence is trying to say, pleading for more sensitivity towards other religions but others seems to be saying if u dun believe in Christ u wun be offended? so wat if I give the following example,
our ancestors nv heard of chirstianity, and practice religions such as buddhism/taoist that believe in heaven n hell as well and have last rites that 'send' the dead to the underworld.. would Christians tat die in our ancestors time(given buddhist/taosim funeral, thus sent to their version of the underworld) go to buddhist/taoism heaven? or do they go straight to hell?
so if u dun believe in buddhist/taosim version of hell/heaven, u wun be offended if i say all ur christian ancestors go to hell?
Basically, if one dont wish the same thing to be said of him, or done to him, please do not (as much as possible) not to do that. -
I don't understand your example.Originally posted by marlboro:so if u dun believe in buddhist/taosim version of hell/heaven, u wun be offended if i say all ur christian ancestors go to hell?
I think any discussion is going the wrong direction if we start with and focus on the hell. IMHO, the focus should be on sins.
The underlying issue is this:
1. Do you think you are a sinner?
2. With your sinful nature, do you think you deserve hell? -
I think right from the start there is focus on hell too, and topic was not concerned with how non believers think, but how Christian view non believers.Originally posted by Icemoon:I don't understand your example.
I think any discussion is going the wrong direction if we start with and focus on the hell.
The underlying issue is this:
1. Do you think you are a sinner?
2. With your sinful nature, do you think you deserve hell? -
Yea, but I was saying if we want a fruitful discussion on hell, we have to start with sin.
The author of this topic is a God fearing Christ believer and the topic is meant more for Christians than non-believers. It is assumed everyone knows the concept of sin. -
sure, u might say the topic is only for Christians but remember that there are others reading. the point me n laurence are trying to make are simply that u guys be more sensitive to others feelings.Originally posted by Icemoon:Yea, but I was saying if we want a fruitful discussion on hell, we have to start with sin.
The author of this topic is a God fearing Christ believer and the topic is meant more for Christians than non-believers. It is assumed everyone knows the concept of sin. -
btw, if anyone say i am pursuing an agenda here, yes i am, but not against Christians, but its about religious sensitivity...
, so i hope i wont be called anti christ or something...
The last time i discuss this seriously when someone also raise abt the same topic last time...not abt ancestors, but generally on non believers too...
but i am glad we guys discuss this in a nice non flaming manner.. -
There is no obligation for anyone to click the topic. I mean you saw the topic, the title isn't in anyway misleading so you're not cheated, and so you "enter at your own risk".
By clicking, you have agreed to read the views of anyone who can post here? -
urm this particular part has been discussed at length at Chit Chat, there is huge debate on freedom of speech vs moderation...Originally posted by Icemoon:There is no obligation for anyone to click the topic. I mean you saw the topic, the title isn't in anyway misleading so you're not cheated, and so you "enter at your own risk".
By clicking, you have agreed to read the views of anyone who can post here?
We must note, while yes we can choose not to click or read views, doesnt mean we can ignore religious sensitivity..we do not want people to view Christians as self righteous insensitive people wouldnt we?
And if we expound freedom of speech, why cant we click or view those opinions..? And agreeing to view doesnt mean agree not to differ in opinions or feel offended, especially if its involving other beliefs... -
thats fine wif me. everyone's entitled to their views. jus like my view of this thread being offensive and 'certain' Christians are not sensistive to other's views n feelings. I'm just showing my point of view too.Originally posted by Icemoon:By clicking, you have agreed to read the views of anyone who can post here? -
But isn't this a Christian forum?
So are we supposed to tell House Of FengShui forum to be sensitive to Christians since Christians don't believe in fortune-telling and fengshui? I am not trying to offend the owner of HOTS forum, but just making a point that this is a Christian forum. So other religion people who get offended easily should not click on any topic here. -
I beg to differ, Eternal Hope is a Christian forum and, by and large, the discussions are forOriginally posted by marlboro:sure, u might say the topic is only for Christians but remember that there are others reading. the point me n laurence are trying to make are simply that u guys be more sensitive to others feelings.
1. Christians to share among themselves - this unfortunately may have digressed to Protestants and RCs beating each other up. This I do not agree.
2. Non-believers coming in to ask questions, politely.
There are stuffs in the other forums that offend me but in no way would I go in and flame those folks as much as I disagree with them.
This, I agree. The difference between Larry and some other forumites is the tone of his notes, which I must say is mostly unconfrontational. He is one of the many non-Christians I am able to reply to and at the end of it, agree to disagree, and walk away happy.Originally posted by laurence82:btw, if anyone say i am pursuing an agenda here, yes i am, but not against Christians, but its about religious sensitivity..., so i hope i wont be called anti christ or something...
The last time i discuss this seriously when someone also raise abt the same topic last time...not abt ancestors, but generally on non believers too...
but i am glad we guys discuss this in a nice non flaming manner..
I am all for religious sensitivity myself. I refrain from commenting on other religions as well as RCs. Whatever gripes I have with any religious organisation is internal - ie within the folds of Christianity, the malpractice of some supposedly spirit-filled church. -
Thank you Chin Eng for clarifying our position.Originally posted by Chin Eng:...Eternal Hope is a Christian forum and, by and large, the discussions are for
1. Christians to share among themselves...
2. Non-believers coming in to ask questions, politely.
Like I mentioned before, the purpose of this forum is not to start a vendetta against all other religions. The mods here will, in our best abilities, prevent such events. I seek the cooperation of all who frequent this forum
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it's not for us to say who goes to heaven or not.. only God has the say..
So in the end honeybunz and her conclusion tat they go to heaven is wrong ? So they may be likely to go to hell ? And they go there irregardless of whether do they have a chance to know about christ or not ?as for spreading the Gospel. It's a commandment given by God Himself. If you believe in God and He tells you to do something, will you not do it?
True, but to wat aim ? In the end it may cause them eternal misery by going to hell, will tat be helping these people or punishing them ? If by looking at your reply, it just meant tat spreading the gospel is good for the person who spread it, but bad for the people to receive it.
most of us are not certain how those that have not heard will be judged. but if one has listened and believes and follows, it's certain they go to heaven. that's the intention of those who spread the Gospel.hmm.. the bible said that for those who never heard of the gospel, they will be judged according to their conscience.. their conscience will stand up against them, and all things will be revealed, then they will be judged according to their deeds
Tat is interesting... where do u read tat from the gospel ?People who have not heard of christ... have been living in a shell for far too long.
Wat do u mean ?Does that mean when they die they wont go to Nirvana or achieve immortality?
Taoist and buddhist never ask people to believe in them as a criteria to achieve nirvana or immortality. If u r good person u still get to have a chance to achieve nirvana or immortality. For christainity, u can be the most wicked person and u still have a higher chance of being "saved" than a non-believerTis not for us to judge nor understand..
I don't know man... if we have tis attitude of not trying to clarify doubts, then we will all carry on being ignorant forever.
HE has HIS ways..
Let HIM decide for "them"..
As for us, we shld b glad dat we hav the chance which "they" did not.. -
For christainity, u can be the most wicked person and u still have a higher chance of being "saved" than a non-believer
For the upteenth time, A Christian who does not repent cannot be saved, because he is rejecting God's mercy. -
That's not what SIS is fussing about.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:For the upteenth time, A Christian who does not repent cannot be saved, because he is rejecting God's mercy.
His point is, you can be the greatest evil but truly repent at the last minute and you're still saved.