People who have not heard of Christ
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I have been pondering over this.
Our great grandparents and ancestors have not heard of Christianity, Jesus Christ and God. The only religious divines they were taught to pray to during those time were money god, kitchen god, sea god etc. They might have accept Christ if they were given a chance to. But not many missionaries visited China.
Now they have all died. Will they still go to heaven, cuz God is merciful and understands that it's not their fault not accepting Christ? Or will they go to hell since they have not accepted Christ and thus they were not saved. -
i've wondered about that before...
But since the only way to heaven is through Christ, am not sure what happened to our ancestors...
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blessed is the meek and the mild, and also the ignorant.
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Didn't your catechism classes tell you the answer?Originally posted by Honeybunz:I have been pondering over this. -
Please refer to the following link:
http://www.behindthebadge.net/apologetics/discuss188.html
A quick summary of this above link can be found in the second last paragraph of this link.
"That also brings me to the idea of those who are mentally ill or who are aborted as unborn babies, etc... They too have no way of hearing the gospel or understanding it, yet I believe that God is merciful and loving to them and will only judge them for what they do know not what they don't know. Now I will be the first one to say that with God anything is possible, so it is possible that God knows what decision they would have made if they had heard the gospel. I believe that is true of those in isolated countries who have never heard the gospel too. However, I think that if God did allow those who were mentally ill or killed before they reached the age of reason into heaven it would still be through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. "
NOTE: The basis for this reply is from the perspective of a Christian to another Christian. I do not wish to enter into another pointless debate on logic and science vs religion. -
Original posting by sgsentnel in
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=90991
Everyone has a part to play in ensuring racial and religious harmony in Singapore.The social cohesiveness we have enjoyed all these years shd never be taken for granted. We shd take every opportunity to constantly forge greater understanding among different racial and religious groups.
If the society is not unified and ppl are intolerant of others, then religious views can easily be manipulated to negative use. Our stand against the misuse of religion to sow discord show be strong and unequivocal :
Singaporeans are free to practise their beliefs, as long as they do not impinge on other faiths, or pose a threat to our national security. -
Catechim class said yes, they go to heaven, like those aborted babies.Originally posted by Icemoon:Didn't your catechism classes tell you the answer?
But a few friends from Poly Christian groups said no (but then they don't represent the whole group).
Anyway just wanted to open this up for discussion only.
Does your bible class or Sunday School touch on this topic? -
Question : Why want to spread your religion to other people then ? Isn't it better tat the word is kept secret so tat everyone can get to heaven instead of telling it to them, few % get to believe in it and the rest get to go to hell ? Aren't u indirectly sentencing them to hell when u tell them about christ ?
Thinking along tis line, isn't tat the case where 100% of the chinese, japanese and other nationalities in the past get to heaven automatically and this ratio drops significantly to less than 20% now due to the "spreading" of the word. Aren't christainity causing the rest of the population to go to hell ? -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:Question : Why want to spread your religion to other people then ? Isn't it better tat the word is kept secret so tat everyone can get to heaven instead of telling it to them, few % get to believe in it and the rest get to go to hell ? Aren't u indirectly sentencing them to hell when u tell them about christ ?
Thinking along tis line, isn't tat the case where 100% of the chinese, japanese and other nationalities in the past get to heaven automatically and this ratio drops significantly to less than 20% now due to the "spreading" of the word. Aren't christainity causing the rest of the population to go to hell ?
dunno what your 2nd para is talking about -
Okie, I rephrase it a bit..
in the past, all the chinese, mongols and japanese etc have never heard of christ or word on god isn't it ? When they never heard of it, they r classified as being ignorant and can go direct to heaven without questions asked. However the priests and etc from the christian countries then spread the "word" to these other countries. Because of this spreading of the words, now almost all chinese, japanese etc have heard of it. Although they have heard of it, most don't believe in it. This is a fact which none can deny. Now they have heard of it, they r no longer classified as ignorant nor r they believers. They r now sent straight to hell. So in tis case, aren't the priests or whoever tat had spread the word of the 'lord" causing these people to go to hell ?
in short, since being ignorant is more blessed than being "knowledgable" in tis area, why want to spread it to other people ? -
how do you know that the gospel wasn't spread to the chinese, mongols and japanese?Originally posted by stupidissmart:Okie, I rephrase it a bit..
in the past, all the chinese, mongols and japanese etc have never heard of christ or word on god isn't it ? When they never heard of it, they r classified as being ignorant and can go direct to heaven without questions asked. However the priests and etc from the christian countries then spread the "word" to these other countries. Because of this spreading of the words, now almost all chinese, japanese etc have heard of it. Although they have heard of it, most don't believe in it. This is a fact which none can deny. Now they have heard of it, they r no longer classified as ignorant nor r they believers. They r now sent straight to hell. So in tis case, aren't the priests or whoever tat had spread the word of the 'lord" causing these people to go to hell ?
in short, since being ignorant is more blessed than being "knowledgable" in tis area, why want to spread it to other people ? -
Because there was no signs of it being passed over from history. It comes in only at the last few centuries. Surely it had to be spread from the middle east to other places since it originates there isn't it ?
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hmm... i'm dunno much of the chinese history...
so can't comment on that.. -
it's not for us to say who goes to heaven or not.. only God has the say..
as for spreading the Gospel. It's a commandment given by God Himself. If you believe in God and He tells you to do something, will you not do it?
most of us are not certain how those that have not heard will be judged. but if one has listened and believes and follows, it's certain they go to heaven. that's the intention of those who spread the Gospel. -
hmm.. the bible said that for those who never heard of the gospel, they will be judged according to their conscience.. their conscience will stand up against them, and all things will be revealed, then they will be judged according to their deeds
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Judge by conscience .. how does that work? Anyone can elaborate?Originally posted by Honeybunz:Anyway just wanted to open this up for discussion only.
Does your bible class or Sunday School touch on this topic?
PS: I don't attend church, not to mention bible class or sunday school liao .. haha -
People who have not heard of christ... have been living in a shell for far too long.
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Why since the ancient times people in Europe and Middle East and Africa never heard of Buddhism or Hinduism or Taoism etc etc...
Does that mean when they die they wont go to Nirvana or achieve immortality?
*flips over sutras and scriptures* -
Well, I believe that the aim of life is to attain nirvana and self-realization. Our souls, on death, will go to heaven for judgement. So that is probably what happen to our ancestors. They did not know the truth. When they are rebirth, they would probably know it. Its just a matter of time. If we had did something bad, we would probably have to be rebirth as another human to clear off our karmic baggage. I think all religions are the same. They teach the same things.
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Jehovah's Witnesses have a good take on life. I'm not too sure if there are many Jehovah's witnesses in s'pore. I'm not a JW btw. It's just that their view ofwhy people die and are on earth makes you go Ummmm...
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2004/08/29/2003200713 -
Tis not for us to judge nor understand..Originally posted by Honeybunz:I have been pondering over this.
Our great grandparents and ancestors have not heard of Christianity, Jesus Christ and God. The only religious divines they were taught to pray to during those time were money god, kitchen god, sea god etc. They might have accept Christ if they were given a chance to. But not many missionaries visited China.
Now they have all died. Will they still go to heaven, cuz God is merciful and understands that it's not their fault not accepting Christ? Or will they go to hell since they have not accepted Christ and thus they were not saved.
HE has HIS ways..
Let HIM decide for "them"..
As for us, we shld b glad dat we hav the chance which "they" did not..
Back-Slider-In-Christ
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I dont agree for some points.Originally posted by shade343:Well, I believe that the aim of life is to attain nirvana and self-realization. Our souls, on death, will go to heaven for judgement. So that is probably what happen to our ancestors. They did not know the truth. When they are rebirth, they would probably know it. Its just a matter of time. If we had did something bad, we would probably have to be rebirth as another human to clear off our karmic baggage. I think all religions are the same. They teach the same things.
Christianity do not believe in reincarnation, as I have learned in some topics here. Neither do Hindus believe in being saved through Jesus Christ.
To the rest...
If we were to examine all religious scriptures and holy books closely, it will be wrong to say there are no similarity, and it will be wrong to say there are no differences.
The point is this, while its alright to point out similarities or differences among different beliefs, continually speaking out about how non Christians can be saved or not be saved can have serious consequences.
In this case, this topic include our ancestors, generally, for Chinese, its ancestor worship, Buddhism and Taoism, Indian will be Hinduism and Buddhism, and for the Malays, Islam. Not just free thinkers.
These beliefs are still being practised today and some are recognised as offical religions in Singapore and other countries. To many here, it may sounds like a spiritual or an intellectual discussions. But please be mindful and be sensitive when discussing such topics. Its tantamount to spitting on other beliefs because for many who do not believe in Christ. Not just because they feel offended, but they have their own strong reasons for not believing in Christ.
And if such topics heat up, what will be implications for the multireligious societies like Malaysia and Singapore? Worse ,if this debate is carried on offline and discussed with counterparts from other beliefs..? -
WHAT IS WRONG WITH NOT KNOWING CHRIST? NOT EVERYONE BELIEVES IN HIM ANYWAY...
[mod edit] remove acronym implying vulgarities -
Thanks laurence for pointing out about being sensitive to everyone that reads the thread.
The discussions are in no way to change your beliefs. You still have to make your own choices. Also, please do not get personal in your remarks or insult the beliefs of others. Let us all practise mutual respect
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I think there is no need to feel offended. If you do not believe in the christian worldview, there is no reason to feel offended. To you, the God who will judge and the God who pays for your salvation will not even exist in the first place.
People feel offended if the thing you say MEAN something to them. Like if you scold a Muslim a pig or dog, you know the reaction.
Similarly, how can a naturalist get angry if people condemn him to hell?