to Summer hill,
we go to hell not really because we do bad things but rather cos we were already condemned to hell in the 1st place as all of us are born wif the original sin of adam...so to begin wif, all humans are destined for hell...its wif the repentance n forgiveness of sins tat was made possible by jesus sacrifice on the cross tat made it possible for us to go to heaven...
i tink when we look at christianity, we have to see it from the perspective of a parent-child r/s...heaven is view as a house belonging to God and as his children, we get to live in the same house as Him juz like how we live in the same hse as our parents on earth...the qn then is do we have to do gd deeds in order to live in the same house as our parents? Do take note tat christians call our God Heavenly Father...the word ''Father'' tells us sth abt a parent-child r/s...hope i have answered ur qns...
I answer question 1:
It's God grace to heal you. Jut like you have food on you table.
Praise lord.
I answer q6: bad things also happen to me. I fall down too.
Originally posted by despondent:to Summer hill,
we go to hell not really because we do bad things but rather cos we were already condemned to hell in the 1st place as all of us are born wif the original sin of adam...so to begin wif, all humans are destined for hell...its wif the repentance n forgiveness of sins tat was made possible by jesus sacrifice on the cross tat made it possible for us to go to heaven...
i tink when we look at christianity, we have to see it from the perspective of a parent-child r/s...heaven is view as a house belonging to God and as his children, we get to live in the same house as Him juz like how we live in the same hse as our parents on earth...the qn then is do we have to do gd deeds in order to live in the same house as our parents? Do take note tat christians call our God Heavenly Father...the word ''Father'' tells us sth abt a parent-child r/s...hope i have answered ur qns...
I hope you realize that the doctrine of original sin is theologically ambiguous. In fact, noted Christian apologist William Lane Craig believes that when infants or small children die, they go to heaven. He uses it to justify the God-sanctioned genocide of the Canaanites.
But if you truly believe in Original Sin, you have to explain whether it is fair and just that someone who has never heard of Christianity is condemned to eternal hell for not believing in Jesus.
I also think the parent-child analogy is fraught with flaws. Go ask any parent if they would be willing to condemn their children to eternal punishment for one bad decision. Maybe a parent will accept a life in prisonment, or even the forfeiture of life itself, for a grievous crime commited by the child. But eternal hell just because, say, your child chose Buddhism (and a life of kindness)? Come on.
Most falls in love with the god that they wanna worship... very much akin to people choosing the wrong partner for a relationship.
Being zealous, jealous for the minute reasons. Define what is your subjective "true love" and test it if it can flow from self. With love, comes patience. With patience, comes deliberate slowness in acting out of anger.
Sadly... Heaven inevitably is for a select few chosen ones... Any Christian who denies this, is bound to contradict self. What God is looking for are those who has certain particular traits. Love is paramount whereas faith is the motivating factor. When God's love does not match one's subjective definition of it, faith suffers.... consequently negatively affecting those traits.
Just ranting how shallow love is nowadays... if present....
As usual. Only the Christians can understand the analogy I gave cannot be taken literally...wad more can I say?
In the 1st place u r taking the stand tat all humans r God's children. Ur point made is valid but my pt is r non-Christians considered God's children? If they r not, then wads wrong wif God the Father not allowing these "strangers" to live wif him in his house? Will u allow ppl not related to you to stay wif u n be part of ur family? Most ppl wun.
Originally posted by despondent:As usual. Only the Christians can understand the analogy I gave cannot be taken literally...wad more can I say?
Do you realise you make it sounds like you are having a defeatist's attitude? How does it feel to act like Jesus in giving parables without the explaining.... Holier than thou?
Fun fact... majority of Christian professing in the name of Jesus as saviour will not go to heaven... Proof? It is written somewhere in the bible...
U didn't see the explanation below that paragraph? Seriously...
Originally posted by despondent:U didn't see the explanation below that paragraph? Seriously...
I did, after you edited. Still... my previous post is still coherently correct without correction. Was my fun fact not fun or factual for you?
Originally posted by reasonable.atheist:I hope you realize that the doctrine of original sin is theologically ambiguous. In fact, noted Christian apologist William Lane Craig believes that when infants or small children die, they go to heaven. He uses it to justify the God-sanctioned genocide of the Canaanites.
But if you truly believe in Original Sin, you have to explain whether it is fair and just that someone who has never heard of Christianity is condemned to eternal hell for not believing in Jesus.
I also think the parent-child analogy is fraught with flaws. Go ask any parent if they would be willing to condemn their children to eternal punishment for one bad decision. Maybe a parent will accept a life in prisonment, or even the forfeiture of life itself, for a grievous crime commited by the child. But eternal hell just because, say, your child chose Buddhism (and a life of kindness)? Come on.
The doctrine of original sin is NOT theologically ambiguous. In fact, even an atheist like Richard Bozarth is clear about what it is! He wrote, "Christianity has fought, still fights, and will continue to fight science to the desperate end over evolution, because evolution destroys utterly and finally the very reason Jesus’ earthly life was supposedly made necessary. Destroy Adam and Eve and the original sin, and in the rubble you will find the sorry remains of the Son of God. If Jesus was not the redeemer who died for our sins, and this is what evolution means, then Christianity is nothing."
See also http://creation.com/alexander-original-sin
It is misleading to claim that William Lane Craig justified the "genocide" of the Canaanites with the reason that infants go to heaven when they die. He did not do this. In fact, he justified it by saying that God sanctioned a total extermination of the Canaanites by the Israelites because of their depravity. Here you have 400 years of Canaanite children being born and brought up just as sinful as their fathers, something the Bible critic overlooks. And for those Bible critics who are "genuinely" concerned for these infants and young children, Christian apologists reply that they will go to heaven to be with God.
Lastly, to your charge that original sin is unfair, see a response here http://creation.com/original-sin-at-the-bbc
I don't believe by just accepting Jesus as your Saviour will guarantee you a place in Heaven when you die.
Reserved, Yes, Guaranteed, No.
Does it matter if you percieve the concept of Heaven and Hell through historical conditions of human existence, subsequently into ontological and metaphysical characteristics?
Truth is.... it doesnt matter right ? We can be both wrong or both right, or either one of us is right, the other wrong.
But whatever it is, each of us when we die, it will be a Truth known too late for the other.
What is the Truth may not be true.
Your 'test' is still trying to find meaning and purpose for your own existence. If you can truly be... and be without 'being'. So it just depends on how high or how low the parameters you set yourself to be.
Regardless, we each have our own. In the end of the day, exitentialist thinking in a Christian P.O.V is whether you regard the Bible as Authority to your 'self'.
Anyways, am quite tired of trying to go down the existence or non-existence of whatever. Its pointless. We will all find out when we are dead.
Well, unless you are omniscient, you will never ever truly know. Even if you continue on with your discoveries and 'recognising' the 'Truth'. we can only grasp such a thread, and words cannot even describe such an experience.
Like an ameoba pondering a whale.
It takes as much faith in yourself in believing what you 'experience' to percieve what 'IS' and what 'Is Not' . Therefore there will forever be 'threats' to one's 'belief', because either you are one with the universe already, or just a dense rock.
Hence if words cannot explain and the mind cannot comprehend, then it is not wrong to pursue one 'belief' and from there on begin such a journey like how u just gave the analogy of the Lion and the Sheep when journing through 'discovery' and 'recognising'.
Originally posted by despondent:to Summer hill,
we go to hell not really because we do bad things but rather cos we were already condemned to hell in the 1st place as all of us are born wif the original sin of adam...so to begin wif, all humans are destined for hell...its wif the repentance n forgiveness of sins tat was made possible by jesus sacrifice on the cross tat made it possible for us to go to heaven...
i tink when we look at christianity, we have to see it from the perspective of a parent-child r/s...heaven is view as a house belonging to God and as his children, we get to live in the same house as Him juz like how we live in the same hse as our parents on earth...the qn then is do we have to do gd deeds in order to live in the same house as our parents? Do take note tat christians call our God Heavenly Father...the word ''Father'' tells us sth abt a parent-child r/s...hope i have answered ur qns...
okay,
Since "father" create eve and adam right?
If "father" didn't have the intention of eve and adam reproducing, why did "father" make it that eve is a female and had a reproductive system??? Can't he make a clone of adam, or someone similar to adam?
If "father" had the ability to control what things on earth, why did he even put a forbidden apple tree there?
and why was there a snake? can't "father" not create it?
So what if Jesus did experience Heaven and Hell. And what if Buddha did experiences re-incarnation too ?
Since we are open to possiblities, maybe perhaps it is possible that we are wrong ?
Now neither of us have even attained such spirituality and such 'experience', who are we hence to claim that which is 'true' and that what we know is 'truth ? I know I haven't. Now if you have already attained such an experience, and 'spirituality', then your mission on this earth is already complete. Hence you should be travelling down the path of those Enlightened before us. The long hard road, not to mention a good decent amount of followers too.
Now consider that what they experienced is real, should we not therefore follow.. or attempt to comprehend and contemplate their 'being' ?
While reading the Bible or Experiencing Christianity does not make one Jesus, it at least is a path towards who and what Jesus 'Is'and attempt his 'experience'.
Therefore, What is Hot.. is Hot. What is Cold is Cold. Even if they are words, and what u feel is cold is hot and what is hot is cold, it still does not negate the fact that you 'feel' pain. Whether it is 'Hot' or 'Cold'.
While I am open to your possibilties, you therefore must also be open to the possibilities of Jesus's 'experience' being 'true'. But there is always a problem in what we 'experience' may not even be 'true', due to our own limited intellect. While I do agree that we not blindly follow, but following is also not wrong either.