10 Questions Every Intelligent Christian Must Answer [ANS]
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Using logic of the mind and looking for logic in something that the human mind cannot grasp is fighting with what is not. Hence, I say parking one’s mind nowhere -there is a possibility of finding out. It it not out there but an inward journey. Transformation happens from the inner knowing. Change always from the outside. Change is akin to pruning the leaves and branches of a tree, it is superficial. Transformation is examining the roots and making the change from within. It has depth and there is a difference. These are not absolutes, these are relative and not literal and methaphorical and meant for those who are keen and earnest to know. It is meant to introspect.
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Originally posted by Fugazzi:
Knowing PRESUPPOSES knowledge – If u tell me the Bible is the truth. It may have b een true for u. How can it be true for me if i dont know, and even before finding out n if I already conclude that it is truth based on what I have heard or read – what is there to know, i will simply look for ’’things’’/ expereinces to reinforce my beleifs or reject what does not reinforce my beliefs about or I will simply quote u or from the bible – i simply believe it.
If i am resistant to finding out – i can pretend, the reality is that i fear and suppress my doubts and reject anything that questions my beleifs.
however, when i do not decide, on what is true or what is truth, but I am willing to find out the knowledge that I may have acquired from outside of myself may help/may not help (and ti will only help) when i am being open to …Using logic of the mind and looking for logic in something that the human mind cannot grasp is fighting with what is not.
Hence, I say parking one’s mind nowhere -there is a possibility of finding out. It it not out there but an inward journey.
Transformation happens from the inner knowing. Change always from the outside. Change is akin to pruning the leaves and branches of a tree, it is superficial. Transformation is examining the roots and making the change from within. It has depth and there is a difference.Truth is truth whether you know or agree with it. The law of gravity holds regardless of your view about it. But how can you talk about truth when you already say that it is relative? The moment you think you found it you will have to disown it because you have no rational basis for believing in relative truths.
Harping about transformation and change can be mere semantics since both can be used interchangeably. Prison life has transformed him is also the same things as saying that he is a changed person after having been in prison.
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meant for those who are keen and earnest to know. It is meant to introspect. - cannot understand this, what else is there to say
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@Jonah I am a believer and all that u said are all true. But u cannot convince non-beievers by head knowledge. They have to be convinced by God (i.e. the Holy Spirit). Of course I want everyone to be saved, just like God wants every one to be saved. But people who are blinded by the devil would not believe.
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Originally posted by Fugazzi:
meant for those who are keen and earnest to know. It is meant to introspect. – cannot understand this, what else is there to say
A contradiction is not meant for understanding. Rational people reject contradicting statements. If your worldview consists of contradictions then it is a false worldview.
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Originally posted by Bhw33:
@Jonah I am a believer and all that u said are all true. But u cannot convince non-beievers by head knowledge. They have to be convinced by God (i.e. the Holy Spirit). Of course I want everyone to be saved, just like God wants every one to be saved. But people who are blinded by the devil would not believe.
While the job of converting the soul is God's, the job of communicating the good news and removing intellectual obstacles to the faith is ours. I believe we just need to demonstrate the reasonableness of faith and belief in Jesus, that while it is a step of faith, it is not a blind leap of faith.
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Originally posted by reasonable.atheist:
Jonah,
1. Let's put the biblical accounts aside. The reliability of the Bible is a separate issue that I don't want to go into here. We should just focus on modern-day accounts of God-assisted healing.
2. You need to figure out whether you think God takes an active hand today in healing the sick and wounded. Does he (a) sit back and let medical science do its thing, or does he (b) actively pick and choose people he wants to heal?
3. If your answer is (a), then we don't have to bother with praying.
4. If your answer is (b), then you have a whole host of challenges. But relevant to the "God heals amputees" challenge is this: you have to explain why he allows a child's severed finger to work again, or why he cures someone's mother of cancer, and yet he doesn't let a person's amputed limb regrow.
Why just focus on modern day accounts of healing? Why ignore historical records?
Why the fallacy of false dilemma? Why can't God uses both direct intervention and indirect intervention through medical science to accomplish healing?
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When One is not one is already prayer! Otherwise it is a desire (begging) masquerading as prayer. If I pray and tell him/her(God) - do this, dont do that, why u do this, why u dont do that - i m advising god. How can I be advising someone,something who created me? Beware, the mind games
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Originally posted by Fugazzi:
When One is not one is already prayer! Otherwise it is a desire (begging) masquerading as prayer. If I pray and tell him/her(God) – do this, dont do that, why u do this, why u dont do that – i m advising god.
How can I be advising someone,something who created me?
Beware, the mind gamesWho told you that prayer means advising God what to do?
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If one is created by God's OWN image, why pray and ask for this and that? Is it not telling God that ur creation seems to be lacking in ...? To me, at least,.It is not god's fault at all, it is the human mind that seems to have distorted the meaning of prayer? it feels like humans are trying to define God to fit their own bigotries and prejudices. This is how I feel about most organized religions.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
While the job of converting the soul is God's, the job of communicating the good news and removing intellectual obstacles to the faith is ours. I believe we just need to demonstrate the reasonableness of faith and belief in Jesus, that while it is a step of faith, it is not a blind leap of faith.
Ours is not blind faith. We know whom we have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which we have committed unto Him against that day. The propagators of evolution are the ones who have blind faith.
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Originally posted by Fugazzi:
If one is created by God’s OWN image, why pray and ask for this and that? Is it not telling God that ur creation seems to be lacking in …? To me, at least,.It is not god’s fault at all, it is the human mind that seems to have distorted the meaning of prayer? it feels like humans are trying to define God to fit their own bigotries and prejudices. This is how I feel about most organized religions.
By what logic do you employ to say that just because we are created in God's image it means prayer is redundant? We are free willed beings and God delights in our prayers and supplications to Him. It is not telling God what to do at all. Your idea of prayer is totally contrary to Scripture. -
we are also in a sense born in likeness to our parents...we look somewad like them whether in appearance, character traits, habits etc...but does tat mean tat its redundant for us to tok to our parents since we are in some sense born in their image???
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to BIC,
i am guessing here...could he mean that since we are like God, we shld noe him well enuff tat we noe his tots, plans and feelings to the pt theres no need to ask him anything since we are all-knowing like him? I would say tat he is imtrepreting likeness as a 100% likeness...in some sense, its like saying we are God...
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Dear Reasonable.Atheist,
Okay, I will not quote any part of the Bible.
The answer is (b), but not the way you may be thinking, lest you think ill of God.
For every person who gets well from sickness or injury, God's hand is active in it. The reason that we can breathe is because God's hand is active in it. It is not that we deserve to breathe. But God is merciful and gracious. Remember, in hell there is no breathing because God's active blessing is not there. God has the ability to withhold the breath of life, and we would immediately stop breathing if He did that.
God allows a child's severed finger to work again because He has had mercy on the child. God cures someone's mother of cancer because He has had mercy on her. God did not let a person's amputated limb regrow because He had withheld His mercy on that person.
God chooses whom to have mercy on and how He wants to have mercy on each person and even the amount of mercy. That is His right. God did not promise to heal a severed finger, cure cancer or regrow amputated limbs. But if God did any of those, then it is evident that He has had mercy and grace.
God is always good and He keeps His promises. But God is not bound by promises He did not make, nor is He obliged to behave in a way that people think He should. But God did make this promise, that whoever would repent and believe in Jesus Christ will have eternal life and live together with Him in heaven forever. This promise still stands. Quickly, Reasonable.Atheist, what are you waiting for? Will you come to church this weekend? -
Dear Fugazzi,
God created everything perfect. But because of the disobedience of Adam and Eve, the sin entered the world and it became imperfect.
Really, then. We deserve to be in hell right now.
You are correct when you say man imagines God based on his own ideas in his head. Your third paragraph is an example of this, because it is a mixture of what is true and untrue about God. Man's ideas about God will always be inaccurate, because man is influenced by his sinful nature. But God's declaration of Himself is always accurate, because that is what He says about Himself. And these statements of God are found in the Bible.
War, famine, poverty, hunger and disease have been going on ever since the disobedience of Adam and Eve. The cause of all these is sin. And these things will go on until the judgment day. After judgment day, there will be no more war, famine, poverty, hunger and disease for those who are in heaven.
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The flower is beautiful, whether or not you experience it or believe it.
The carrot cake is fantastic, whether or not your friend tasted it.
God is real. Heaven and hell are real. God's forgiveness is real, whether or not you experience it or believe in it. I have tasted God's love, and it is very real.
There is no need to deprive yourself, though. Do not be like your friend who missed out on the fantastic carrot cake. If you want to taste God's love, come with me to church and I will show you. :-) -
@ Jonah Yong - muse over this lah ''God'' is not about looking up, looking down, looking around, it is looking IN .
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@Jonah Yong The flower is beautiful, whether or not you experience it or believe it. How do u know? It is not real for u, u have not expereinced it, then u are simply parroting what has been told to u. It is real for u cos u have made it a belief - it is real in ur mind only The carrot cake is fantastic, whether or not your friend tasted it. The same here - how do u know, have u had an experience of it, it seems u are parroting. Has anyone found hell or heaven - it seems like a fiction lah. it not geographical in nature, - it is consequence of unwise/wise choices and the ''results'' in a state of mind. Ways of living! Substituting knowledge with beleifs is simply accumulation of what is acquired from outside of oneself. God is one's inner being - which entails going in and diving into the depths of one's being. No preist, no pastor, no book, is needed. Dialogue is possible only between two persons, and God is not a person but a presence – beauty,peace joy and ..., can one find one's inner being? One can be kind or one is being kind? Hence I say this - when one is being present to one's being ..., one is being present to another's being ... - a communion (two emptinesses, can it be counted as two?) However, when one is present to one's self one can only be present to another's self (this are two persons cannot become ''emptinesses'') PS - the flower and the carrot cake are methaphors not to be interpreted in its literal sense lah. A belief is always a concept. egs God, a heaven hell, theology or a certain system of ideas. Belief is mind. Faith is of the ''heart''. Belief is borrowed, faith is one's own experience. Eg One can have faith in the trees. can one believe in the trees? Faith is existential, experiential phenomena (happening and yet not happening - a paradox cos it is a herenow phenomenon) Faith is expereincing ''God'' as it happens!
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Originally posted by Jonah Yong:
Dear Reasonable.Atheist,
Okay, I will not quote any part of the Bible.
The answer is (b), but not the way you may be thinking, lest you think ill of God.
For every person who gets well from sickness or injury, God's hand is active in it. The reason that we can breathe is because God's hand is active in it. It is not that we deserve to breathe. But God is merciful and gracious. Remember, in hell there is no breathing because God's active blessing is not there. God has the ability to withhold the breath of life, and we would immediately stop breathing if He did that.
God allows a child's severed finger to work again because He has had mercy on the child. God cures someone's mother of cancer because He has had mercy on her. God did not let a person's amputated limb regrow because He had withheld His mercy on that person.
God chooses whom to have mercy on and how He wants to have mercy on each person and even the amount of mercy. That is His right. God did not promise to heal a severed finger, cure cancer or regrow amputated limbs. But if God did any of those, then it is evident that He has had mercy and grace.
God is always good and He keeps His promises. But God is not bound by promises He did not make, nor is He obliged to behave in a way that people think He should. But God did make this promise, that whoever would repent and believe in Jesus Christ will have eternal life and live together with Him in heaven forever. This promise still stands. Quickly, Reasonable.Atheist, what are you waiting for? Will you come to church this weekend?Jonah,
Lots of people pray for their illnesses to be healed. Presumably, some amputees pray to regain the function of their limbs as well. Why is it that plenty of people talk about being cured of cancers through divine intervention, or even coming back from the dead through the "grace" of God, but amputees never have their limbs regrown? Why cancer or even HIV victims? Why not amputees? You've never addressed this question.
As for the invitation to church, I've been to quite a number in my life. I'm primarily interested in understanding and sharing the truth, but a church is an unfair and unequal environment -- where I'd be forced to stand and passively listen to a message, and where open conversation is difficult. Instead, to my Christian friends who make the same invitation, I usually propose a one-on-one or small group discussion, even if all the others are Christians.
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Originally posted by despondent:
to BIC,
i am guessing here...could he mean that since we are like God, we shld noe him well enuff tat we noe his tots, plans and feelings to the pt theres no need to ask him anything since we are all-knowing like him? I would say tat he is imtrepreting likeness as a 100% likeness...in some sense, its like saying we are God...
I think he meant that to pray is to find fault with God because it means God's creation is lacking. But such an idea of prayer is completely foreign to the Bible. -
Originally posted by Fugazzi:
@
Jonah Yong – muse over this lah’’God’’ is not about looking up, looking down, looking around, it is looking IN .
Looking in as in saying that there is a divine spark in us? Sorry the Bible does not teach this. The Bible says we are dead in sin. Sin is in us. But when we come to God through Christ, the Holy Spirit is given to us and indwells us. -
Originally posted by Fugazzi:
@Jonah Yong
The flower is beautiful, whether or not you experience it or believe it.
How do u know? It is not real for u, u have not expereinced it, then u are simply parroting what has been told to u. It is real for u cos u have made it a belief – it is real in ur mind onlyThe carrot cake is fantastic, whether or not your friend tasted it. The same here - how do u know, have u had an experience of it, it seems u are parroting.Has anyone found hell or heaven – it seems like a fiction lah. it not geographical in nature, – it is consequence of unwise/wise choices and the ’’results’’ in a state of mind. Ways of living!
Substituting knowledge with beleifs is simply accumulation of what is acquired from outside of oneself. God is one’s inner being – which entails going in and diving into the depths of one’s being. No preist, no pastor, no book, is needed. Dialogue is possible only between two persons, and God is not a person but a presence – beauty,peace joy and …, can one find one’s inner being? One can be kind or one is being kind?
Hence I say this – when one is being present to one’s being …, one is being present to another’s being … – a communion (two emptinesses, can it be counted as two?) However, when one is present to one’s self one can only be present to another’s self (this are two persons cannot become ’’emptinesses’‘
PS – the flower and the carrot cake are methaphors not to be interpreted in its literal sense lah.
A belief is always a concept. egs God, a heaven hell, theology or a certain system of ideas. Belief is mind. Faith is of the ’’heart’’. Belief is borrowed, faith is one’s own experience. Eg One can have faith in the trees. can one believe in the trees? Faith is existential, experiential phenomena (happening and yet not happening – a paradox cos it is a herenow phenomenon) Faith is expereincing ’’God’’ as it happens!
It seems that your worldview is one that is fully absorbed with yourself. This is real for you, that is real for you. This is real for me, that is real for me. What about the question about whether a thing is real, regardless of you or me? You have boxed reality to only that which you have experienced. -
Christianity is the largest religion in the whole world....so that means majority of the people in the world do believe that there is a God ....
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Originally posted by reasonable.atheist:
Jonah,
Lots of people pray for their illnesses to be healed. Presumably, some amputees pray to regain the function of their limbs as well. Why is it that plenty of people talk about being cured of cancers through divine intervention, or even coming back from the dead through the "grace" of God, but amputees never have their limbs regrown? Why cancer or even HIV victims? Why not amputees? You've never addressed this question.
As for the invitation to church, I've been to quite a number in my life. I'm primarily interested in understanding and sharing the truth, but a church is an unfair and unequal environment -- where I'd be forced to stand and passively listen to a message, and where open conversation is difficult. Instead, to my Christian friends who make the same invitation, I usually propose a one-on-one or small group discussion, even if all the others are Christians.
But neither have you answered the question about what your challenge is supposed to prove, and whether that has indeed be proven. -
Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Christianity is the largest religion in the whole world....so that means majority of the people in the world do believe that there is a God ....
More so the fact that I think there are even more people who believe that there is a supernatural realm and that matter is not all there is, contrary to what the atheists are believing.