Jesus was a Hindu Monk and Survived the Cross
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
I have this idea of collective consciousness....if many people gathered and think/wish/hope for the same things, somehow miracles will happen....I dunno where I got this idea from....
If a religion "works" is good enuff for me....it doesn't need to be 100% "true" becos those are questions about religions, not about faith....faith is not about having all the right answers...
I think your definition of faith may need a little tweaking. In my view, faith is not about having all the answers. It is about trusting in God even when we do not have all the answers. It rests on the sufficiency, truthfulness, reliability of the answers we already have. Not having all the answers is not the same as not having all the right answers. I am OK with not having all the answers, but if the answers I have are wrong or false then there is cause for concern! If I am not wrong, all religions purport to teach truths, if not THE truth. Each religion will claim to have the right/true answers in what it teaches. Now as a Christian it is my belief that the Bible is 100% inerrant. This is what Jesus and the apostles taught as well. Today many believe it is not, but for these people where is the assurance then that what they choose to believe is indeed true if the Bible is not inerrant in its entirety?
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Jacky,
You believe that the universe created itself from nothing. You need to see a psychiatrist more than I do, and hopefully a Christian one!
From the buddhist perspective, the universe is always there....before this universe was another universe....after this universe, a new universe shall form....something like this.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
I think your definition of faith may need a little tweaking. In my view, faith is not about having all the answers. It is about trusting in God even when we do not have all the answers. It rests on the sufficiency, truthfulness, reliability of the answers we already have. Not having all the answers is not the same as not having all the right answers. I am OK with not having all the answers, but if the answers I have are wrong or false then there is cause for concern! If I am not wrong, all religions purport to teach truths, if not THE truth. Each religion will claim to have the right/true answers in what it teaches. Now as a Christian it is my belief that the Bible is 100% inerrant. This is what Jesus and the apostles taught as well. Today many believe it is not, but for these people where is the assurance then that what they choose to believe is indeed true if the Bible is not inerrant in its entirety?
Okay, "not about having all the answers" sounds more right....Thanks!
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
From the buddhist perspective, the universe is always there....before this universe was another universe....after this universe, a new universe shall form....something like this.
Yes, I understand this, though this belief goes against the scientific conclusion that matter is not eternal. See also http://www.gotquestions.org/universe-eternal.html
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Yes, I understand this, though this belief goes against the scientific conclusion that matter is not eternal. See also http://www.gotquestions.org/universe-eternal.html
Lets say this present universe is made up of planets/suns/blackholes etc..the old universe maybe different eg. much smaller irregular shaped rocks with no human at all....the new universe maybe made of entirely gases...Yes matter may not be eternal, but "something" will be form after this universe deceased....
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Originally posted by DailyFreeGames.com:
Who created God?
Personally I believe in God but as an atheist thinking, God is merely an imagination from humans, just like in the past, during thunders, humans believed God was angry... science came in and realize the chemistry/physics behind why rain and thunders took place...
Someone asked me whether I am a free thinker or a Christian, I can say I am both. When it comes to science exams, like physics, unless I want to fail my exams, otherwise I need to use logical explanation in how things work, for example thunder... I cannot say because God is angry.
On the other hand, I believe science has its limitations. Some things are beyond explanation yet because we have yet to grasp that kind of understanding. Like for example, why some people so emo... logical explanation is only possible if someone managed to delve into their brain and understand the DNA/chemical reactions happening between the brain on that exact person at that exact point of time, which at this time is still impossible to do... Science has also yet to tell me a simple answer such as what is the black hole made of? where did all the things they suck go into?
But for now, I must continue to pass my exams and I must continue to make the best use of my logical knowledge and reasoning to move forward in life... for things such as God, I will know soon enough when I die.
you are absolutely right, who says God is angry with the Thai and flooded the whole country, why is God angry with NZ with so many earthquake, why is God always angry with the philippino when typhoon is unleashed every year there for several month....we do not attribute everything we know or don't know to God.
When you study physics, you analyse and explain everything with theories, and when you paint a picture or do a sculpture, you see the beauty and feel the life it illustrates. You dont' feel in physics and you can't analyse in arts, and, for years man thought F=MA is true, but later in the microscopic world when we deal with electrons and neutrons, F=MA is not true anymore. and in arts, what is beautiful to you may not be beautiful to others.
Don't need to die before you know there is a God, those of us who know God are not dead yet. hahaha...
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Originally posted by soemt:
Yes religion is (mainly) about faith, often about what we cannot comprehend(fully). And there is definately no science available on what we don't know. But unless i've misread, BIC also believes that religion/faith shouldn't be out of bounds to scientific reasoning, just because we do not have a means/method/techonology yet.
And i do respect the free choices of others. I engage in disscussions because i believe we can better sort out/refine our thinking/understanding through such. I have personally experienced that having to explain to others my understanding of a subject improves my own understanding as well. I hope you get to benefit from this as much as i do too.
I am certainly learning, I am getting more than you, including names, insults, accusation (of course sometimes I give back)...hahaha
arts and science, faith and logic, religion and secularism, ...these are issues debated all the time, what i am learning is not the conclusion, but the little info or remarks that are used to support the belief.....should religion be out of bound to scientific reasoning or science plays no part in religion? I personally belive it all depends on how much are we involved in our religion and how much we know about science, or for that matter, any other thing.
Thanks for sharing.
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Lets say this present universe is made up of planets/suns/blackholes etc..the old universe maybe different eg. much smaller irregular shaped rocks with no human at all....the new universe maybe made of entirely gases...Yes matter may not be eternal, but "something" will be form after this universe deceased....
The present universe is not eternal, to be replaced by another, and another...take a long term view, there is always a universe, that is eternity.
But even for the present universe, if you don't believe it exists, it doesn't, kan tou le jiu shi KONG.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
I am certainly learning, I am getting more than you, including names, insults, accusation (of course sometimes I give back)...hahaha
arts and science, faith and logic, religion and secularism, ...these are issues debated all the time, what i am learning is not the conclusion, but the little info or remarks that are used to support the belief.....should religion be out of bound to scientific reasoning or science plays no part in religion? I personally belive it all depends on how much are we involved in our religion and how much we know about science, or for that matter, any other thing.
Thanks for sharing.
This is afterall still a christian forum/thread....science is knowledge....many scientists are still christians leh....am I wrong about this ?
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
The present universe is not eternal, to be replaced by another, and another...take a long term view, there is always a universe, that is eternity.
But even for the present universe, if you don't believe it exists, it doesn't, kan tou le jiu shi KONG.
Hahaha! Yah lor...no need to worry so much....about life after death and end of the world etc...the present universe is more important !
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Lets say this present universe is made up of planets/suns/blackholes etc..the old universe maybe different eg. much smaller irregular shaped rocks with no human at all....the new universe maybe made of entirely gases...Yes matter may not be eternal, but "something" will be form after this universe deceased....
But it still begs the question because this present universe is the only one we know and experience. We have no way of knowing whether there is another universe besides this. But we do KNOW that this universe is finite and not eternal. But even if you wish to posit many universes (a violation of Occam's Razor) you can still "sum it all up" and ask what is the cause of it all?
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
This is afterall still a christian forum/thread....science is knowledge....many scientists are still christians leh....am I wrong about this ?
Indeed many Christians are scientists. Which is why I always point out that there is no conflict between Biblical faith and science.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
But it still begs the question because this present universe is the only one we know and experience. We have no way of knowing whether there is another universe besides this. But we do KNOW that this universe is finite and not eternal. But even if you wish to posit many universes (a violation of Occam's Razor) you can still "sum it all up" and ask what is the cause of it all?
I think that's why religion and faith come into our lives....we all need some form of answers to the difficult questions....
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
I think that's why religion and faith come into our lives....we all need some form of answers to the difficult questions....
And the answers must at the very least be coherent and logical. In my view Christianity meets these minimum criteria.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
And the answers must at the very least be coherent and logical. In my view Christianity meets these minimum criteria.
Yup! And for me, I choose buddhism....
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Yup! And for me, I choose buddhism....
But since Buddhism denies a creator God it then has to posit that the universe made itself, which is a logical impossibility.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
But since Buddhism denies a creator God it then has to posit that the universe made itself, which is a logical impossibility.
That's not entirely accurate....the universe does not make itself....its like God, it existed even before creation....
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
That's not entirely accurate....the universe does not make itself....its like God, it existed even before creation....
In saying so, most critics do not have a philosophical problem with a God who is eternal since they can accept the idea of an eternal universe. But to say that the universe i.e. matter is eternal is still problematic. How does mere matter give rise to life or mind or consciousness or morals or logic? It cannot give what it does not have. A self-existing eternal God (who is a Personal Being i.e. possessing mind and will) that is omnipotent can cause into existence matter out of nothing.
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Hahaha! Yah lor...no need to worry so much....about life after death and end of the world etc...the present universe is more important !
no leh...we Christians believe there is an end to the present world. The present is important to us because what we do now will have eternal consequences.
Actually what would the universe become in the future is not so important, what is really important is the world we live in now, and even more important is the circle in which we live, the people with whom we interact. We have a long term view, but what is important is now.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
In saying so, most critics do not have a philosophical problem with a God who is eternal since they can accept the idea of an eternal universe. But to say that the universe i.e. matter is eternal is still problematic. How does mere matter give rise to life or mind or consciousness or morals or logic? It cannot give what it does not have. A self-existing eternal God (who is a Personal Being i.e. possessing mind and will) that is omnipotent can cause into existence matter out of nothing.
U have your belief and I have mine....thanks for sharing ! Hahaha!
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
no leh...we Christians believe there is an end to the present world. The present is important to us because what we do now will have eternal consequences.
Actually what would the universe become in the future is not so important, what is really important is the world we live in now, and even more important is the circle in which we live, the people with whom we interact. We have a long term view, but what is important is now.
Yes, the end of the present world will be the formation of another world....
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Yes, the end of the present world will be the formation of another world....
In the Bible, this only happened ONCE, and not in infinite cycles as in Buddhism. But behind this creation of a new heavens and a new earth is God Himself who is doing this work. It is not some kind of impersonal law or force that just keeps on replacing an old universe without end.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
In the Bible, this only happened ONCE, and not in infinite cycles as in Buddhism. But behind this creation of a new heavens and a new earth is God Himself who is doing this work. It is not some kind of impersonal law or force that just keeps on replacing an old universe without end.
Maybe you've label this creative force as "God" ?
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Maybe you've label this creative force as "God" ?
But note that this God I speak about is NOT an impersonal force, like that of Star Wars? It's not some kind of cosmic energy that permeates everything that you just need to tap into. God is a Spirit, a personal Being, possessing will and mind.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
But note that this God I speak about is NOT an impersonal force, like that of Star Wars? It's not some kind of cosmic energy that permeates everything that you just need to tap into. God is a Spirit, a personal Being, possessing will and mind.
How can you know for sure that your soul shall be saved ? If not from the Bible....how have believing in God and christianity change your life ? You have any testimony to share ?