Jesus was a Hindu Monk and Survived the Cross
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
I think there are many kinds of christians, just like there are many kinds of buddhists....they usually dun agree to each other ... even within the same religion....there are different schools of thoughts....hence different sects....
well thats normal. it has to be the interpretations by the different schools or sects after 2 millenniums. you will see cults developing from these beliefs later on, an offshoot. and claiming to be part of the community.
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
I think there are many kinds of christians, just like there are many kinds of buddhists....they usually dun agree to each other ... even within the same religion....there are different schools of thoughts....hence different sects....
But the problem arises when the different groups all say that "an allknowing god told them that they are right".
So every one with a different interpretation ALL CLAIMS that god is guiding them, and yet all their interpretations counter each other. Then the question is : WHo is god guiding and how to tell?
At least buddhists dont say "buddha say this" and "buddha say that" and buddhists dont say buddha is allknwoing too. So there is no problem if buddhists believe in different things.
Problem arises WHEN people in the same group believe in different things AND all of them claim that THE SAME supreme being told them they are correct.
You get me?
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
well thats normal. it has to be the interpretations by the different schools or sects after 2 millenniums. you will see cults developing from these beliefs later on, an offshoot. and claiming to be part of the community.
My presbyterian frens dun agree with my charismatic frens....my tibetan buddhism frens dun agree with my pureland buddhism frens....but each have their own miracles....its wonderful to have so many choices... and many different viewpoints....
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
My presbyterian frens dun agree with my charismatic frens....my tibetan buddhism frens dun agree with my pureland buddhism frens....but each have their own miracles....its wonderful to have so many choices... and many different viewpoints....
just ignore them. but tell them this, you are entitled to your own opinions.
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
But the problem arises when the different groups all say that "an allknowing god told them that they are right".
So every one with a different interpretation ALL CLAIMS that god is guiding them, and yet all their interpretations counter each other. Then the question is : WHo is god guiding and how to tell?
At least buddhists dont say "buddha say this" and "buddha say that" and buddhists dont say buddha is allknwoing too. So there is no problem if buddhists believe in different things.
Problem arises WHEN people in the same group believe in different things AND all of them claim that THE SAME supreme being told them they are correct.
You get me?
If we are looking for answers, its about religion....not faith....I think faith is more important than religion...definitions are or can be different .... but faith is the one that allow miracles to happen, in any chosen religion...
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
just ignore them. but tell them this, you are entitled to your own opinions.
Of coz....its afterall religious freedom in Singapore ! Hahaha!
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
If we are looking for answers, its about religion....not faith....I think faith is more important than religion...definitions are or can be different .... but faith is the one that allow miracles to happen, in any chosen religion...
Demon BAne
I think you dont get it.
Let me simplify it for you.
Christian A says "God has guided me and impressed upon me that baptism is required for salvation"
Christian B says "God has guided me and impressed upon me that baptism ISN'T required for salvation"
Now. Both christians believe in the same God but obviously either
1) This same God is telling both christians different things
OR
2) One of the christians is correct and is guided by God
For buddhists, this problem does not arise because there is no supreme being who Knows all
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
Demon BAne
I think you dont get it.
Let me simplify it for you.
Christian A says "God has guided me and impressed upon me that baptism is required for salvation"
Christian B says "God has guided me and impressed upon me that baptism ISN'T required for salvation"
Now. Both christians believe in the same God but obviously either
1) This same God is telling both christians different things
OR
2) One of the christians is correct and is guided by God
For buddhists, this problem does not arise because there is no supreme being who Knows all
In buddhism, our own actions and thinking and perception determines the outcome of our lives...or reality. Due to the laws of cause and effect....
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
Demon BAne
I think you dont get it.
Let me simplify it for you.
Christian A says "God has guided me and impressed upon me that baptism is required for salvation"
Christian B says "God has guided me and impressed upon me that baptism ISN'T required for salvation"
Now. Both christians believe in the same God but obviously either
1) This same God is telling both christians different things
OR
2) One of the christians is correct and is guided by God
For buddhists, this problem does not arise because there is no supreme being who Knows all
yes there are no commandments in Buddhism. even the precepts are voluntary. the Buddha say you can try and test it out, dun believe and accept in anything you are taught because of teacher, tradition, holy books etc.
buddhism is unlike god religions beliefs
there are no self or soul
no supreme god being
cause and condition and dependent origination. nothing arose from being independent.
salvation is obtainable by self.
that is why buddhism is more receptive and readily accepted. Buddha did not claim his teachings are the truth and all other religions false.
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
yes there are no commandments in Buddhism. even the precepts are voluntary. the Buddha say you can try and test it out, dun believe and accept in anything you are taught because of teacher, tradition, holy books etc.
buddhism is unlike god religions beliefs
there are no self or soul
no supreme god being
cause and condition and dependent origination. nothing arose from being independent.
salvation is obtainable by self.
that is why buddhism is more receptive and readily accepted. Buddha did not claim his teachings are the truth and all other religions false.
If that's so, why are u not a buddhist?
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
If that's so, why are u not a buddhist?
its just a label. labels are not important.
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
its just a label. labels are not important.
Hahaha! I get what u mean....
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
Sure I can aagrree with you partly that all things complex could have been created.
But then when it comes to your God/Goddess who is so much more complex, you apply special pleading and say that the logic of "creaor-creation" does not apply anymore.
Seriously?
You say "OH YEA everything complex MUST HAVE A CREATOR"
I ask "Erm, so how about your God/Goddess who is so much more complex?"
You say "OH no need for creator because God is the creator!"
See a blatent fallacy?
Tcmc,
Since when did I say "OH YEA everything complex MUST HAVE A CREATOR"?
You said God is also complex and thus needs a creator too. You are basically blindly regurgitating what Dawkins said. This was already refuted and had you really been such a competent defender of the young earth view and spent some time searching the answer at Creation.com instead of whining about it being a Christian website! And mind you I think I quoted this article before but you apparently and blissfully went lalalalala over it! http://creation.com/who-designed-the-designer-the-old-who-created-god-canard-revisited
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Tcmc,
Since when did I say "OH YEA everything complex MUST HAVE A CREATOR"?
You said God is also complex and thus needs a creator too. You are basically blindly regurgitating what Dawkins said. This was already refuted and had you really been such a competent defender of the young earth view and spent some time searching the answer at Creation.com instead of whining about it being a Christian website! And mind you I think I quoted this article before but you apparently and blissfully went lalalalala over it! http://creation.com/who-designed-the-designer-the-old-who-created-god-canard-revisited
BIC
So by making a simple statement of "God is eternal and needs no creator", then automatically you guys are right and "God needs no creator" becomes a fact?
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Hahaha! Just some points of my tots....btw, I dun think the universe happen by chance....neither do I believe there's a "grand design".... I think the universe is "eternal" in function....before this universe, there was another universe...etc.
Well, the law of the excluded middle applies. Either this universe happened by chance or it was created. Is there a middle option anywhere? If so, can you articulate it? You entertain the idea that there was a universe before this and so on and so forth. But in this case you are entertaining the idea that matter is eternal. But this goes against all the science and established scientific laws we know today. At least I think a plus to the Biblical worldview is that it does not goes against any known law of nature discovered by science.
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
BIC
So by making a simple statement of "God is eternal and needs no creator", then automatically you guys are right and "God needs no creator" becomes a fact?
the universe has no need for a god or creator. google it. -
Originally posted by Tcmc:
BIC
So by making a simple statement of "God is eternal and needs no creator", then automatically you guys are right and "God needs no creator" becomes a fact?
At the very least it completely demolishes your strawman canard! Sorry dude, no special pleading for you please. Fault the logic if you can.
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
the universe has no need for a god or creator. google it.Says who?
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
Sadly,
BIC still believes that sin causes disasters and that disasters happen because people are sinful.
It is plain superstition.
Many of my christian friends already know that disasters are not caused by sin/God. Yet BIC still lives in that era.
Tcmc is still bashing strawman arguments and caricaturing my beliefs. When will you represent my beliefs correctly?
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Well, the law of the excluded middle applies. Either this universe happened by chance or it was created. Is there a middle option anywhere? If so, can you articulate it? You entertain the idea that there was a universe before this and so on and so forth. But in this case you are entertaining the idea that matter is eternal. But this goes against all the science and established scientific laws we know today. At least I think a plus to the Biblical worldview is that it does not goes against any known law of nature discovered by science.
god concept has been around for at least 5000 years, as Hinduism is around that. xtian 2011 and Islam about there. modern science has been around for 100 years or thereabouts, so it is not readily accepted by these people, because if this is so, all their beliefs will be reduced to ruins and fraud. so they rather chose to believe there is a god and will defend it what you call blind faith. -
Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
I dunno, whatever lol. as I said, labels are not important. what is important are my world views correct and rational.Please articulate your worldviews for us to assess its correctness and rationality.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
At the very least it completely demolishes your strawman canard! Sorry dude, no special pleading for you please. Fault the logic if you can.
Your website says "god is eternal and therefore needs no creator".
1. God is not even proven empirically. Cannot be measured, detected, compared and observed.
2. Eternity is also not a proven concept.
3. Making a statement like this does not make it a fact automatically.
TThere you go. I have shown you why the website's explanation doesnt make sense and is baseless
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Well, the law of the excluded middle applies. Either this universe happened by chance or it was created. Is there a middle option anywhere? If so, can you articulate it? You entertain the idea that there was a universe before this and so on and so forth. But in this case you are entertaining the idea that matter is eternal. But this goes against all the science and established scientific laws we know today. At least I think a plus to the Biblical worldview is that it does not goes against any known law of nature discovered by science.
What I meant was a different universe...not the same one that endured eternity....if science was correct, matter could not be created nor destroyed....
I choose to believe that the universe is "ever changing" and "eternal"...but I do not have proof to justify my beliefs...I dun need proofs...that's what faith is all about...I dun have all the correct answers...and I think that's not important....the important thing is that your religious beliefs makes u a better person....
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
god concept has been around for at least 5000 years, as Hinduism is around that. xtian 2011 and Islam about there. modern science has been around for 100 years or thereabouts, so it is not readily accepted by these people, because if this is so, all their beliefs will be reduced to ruins and fraud. so they rather chose to believe there is a god and will defend it what you call blind faith.Polemic hot air. No need to respond to such assertions above if you do not even bother to substantiate any of your points. Yes, the idea of God has been around for a long time. Explain why people believe in God, whether in the past or till today. Believers in God comes in all forms, from the humble farmer to the those in the highest echelons of academia.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Polemic hot air. No need to respond to such assertions above if you do not even bother to substantiate any of your points. Yes, the idea of God has been around for a long time. Explain why people believe in God, whether in the past or till today. Believers in God comes in all forms, from the humble farmer to the those in the highest echelons of academia.
"Believers in God comes in all forms, from the humble farmer to the those in the highest echelons of academia."
Agreed.
There are many scientists/mathematicians today who believe in Allah, Lord Krishna, Jesus etc.