Jesus was a Hindu Monk and Survived the Cross
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the interesting thing is i do not know of any christian who converted only AFTER affirming whether baptism is needed for salvation...perhaps ALL of us are practising blind faith...
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u have forgotten tat God is also gracious...God is a judge but he is also love...
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Originally posted by despondent:
u have forgotten tat God is also gracious...God is a judge but he is also love...
Yah hor...that means baptized non-christians also can goto heaven lah ?
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why would a non-christian be baptised in the 1st place?
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
But then my christian friends also tell me baptism IS necessary for baptism.
If never get baptised, the christian will not ge tsaved.
so non christians dun get baptised, will go to hell instead?
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Originally posted by despondent:
why would a non-christian be baptised in the 1st place?
I mean after they had been baptized...sometime later they left the christian faith....
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Originally posted by despondent:
u have forgotten tat God is also gracious...God is a judge but he is also love...
you said "God is a judge but he is also love..."
Good. Then please apply this truth of yours to nonchristians too.
There are many good nonchristians who will not "believe in jesus" in time.
As much as the bible says nonchristians cannot go heaven, the bible also says God is love and merciful
So please, bible is "si" (dead), but your God is living.
Its possible he wil lallow good nonchristians to go heaven
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ah...see? so they left the faith after getting baptised...if baptism was needed for salvation wouldnt tat mean they stil go heaven? baptism comes after salvation...so if the roots(salvation) are cut off, can the tree still survive?
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Tcmc,
You are still confused as ever.
you are as incoherent and irrational as ever. talking abour projecting
my foot
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but he is judge...he will judge tat those who are nt part of his ''family'' wun get to live in his house(heaven)...ur parents love ur cousins but will ur cousins ever live in ur family as ur siblings???
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Originally posted by despondent:
ah...see? so they left the faith after getting baptised...if baptism was needed for salvation wouldnt tat mean they stil go heaven? baptism comes after salvation...so if the roots(salvation) are cut off, can the tree still survive?
Lol.
COming up with own explanations to suit your own beliefs.
"Oh people who dont get baptised can still go heaven, even though thebible says baptism is necessary to be saved!"
"Oh people who dont believe in jesus definitely cannot go heaven, because the bible says belief is necessary to get saved!"
Do you see how you twist your logic for different situations?
You make your own God.
You believe in what, then you also make your God believe in what.
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oh and do u noe tat love can be one-sided but a r/s must be 2-sided? God loves but its one-sided when it comes to those who dun reciprocate...wads a r/s wif God? its when the love he shows is reciprocated by his children(the believers)...
its like the parents love their children but the cildren dun love the parents and run away from home and refuse to come back...the parents wait for the children to return but children refuse to return...read up on the prodigal son in the bible...tats a gd eg...
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ok...then stop discussing wif me and i will stop discussing wif u...gd thing i didnt agree to the request u made in PM...
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Originally posted by despondent:
oh and do u noe tat love can be one-sided but a r/s must be 2-sided? God loves but its one-sided when it comes to those who dun reciprocate...wads a r/s wif God? its when the love he shows is reciprocated by his children(the believers)...
its like the parents love their children but the cildren dun love the parents and run away from home and refuse to come back...the parents wait for the children to return but children refuse to return...read up on the prodigal son in the bible...tats a gd eg...
Because to you, you think "love" is the most important to your God.
But to other christians, OBEDIENCE to the bible is the most important to God.
And if the bible says baptism is necessary for salvation, why do you twist it and say "Oh those who dont get baptised can still go heaven".
Why do you twist what is written?
James 1:22
Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.
Tsktsk.Why dont you do what the Word says?
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ppl sincerely share wad they believe and u accuse ppl of making God...why are we the ones making God? why not u? u make urself sound like someone who noes the bible better than the christians here...isnt tat pride?
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u tink the word says tat...i tink the word says sth else...u insist urs is rite...i have nth to say...i told u b4 nt to take every verse literally...
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Originally posted by despondent:
ppl sincerely share wad they believe and u accuse ppl of making God...why are we the ones making God? why not u? u make urself sound like someone who noes the bible better than the christians here...isnt tat pride?
Exactly!
Maybe its you, maybe its me, maybe its other christians!
my point is we can never be 100% sure!
You say belief in jesus is requried to be saved.
I say belief in jesus isnot required.
Both of us are not 100% sure!
Thats my point!
You get my point?
My point is not to tear downyour beliefs, but to show you and BIC that no one can ever be 100% sure that their beliefs are correct.
Not me, not you and not BIC.\
As long as there are different beliefs, then we must consider all, and say to ourselves "Oh we might be wrong".
Dont be so prideful.
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
but what if there was not enough time to baptise old ah ma, and baptism is required for salvation?
Then this is still begging the question and assumung that baptism is required for salvation. In any case, how is this really different from the thief on the cross scenario? At that time the thief's problem is also no time and he will not be allowed to come down, be baptised, and then re-crucified again.
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so since cannot be 100% sure may as well take the calculated ''risk'' tat there is no god...ok, we leave it as tat...
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have i ever said b4 tat my beliefs were 100% correct? u assumes i was rite?
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Originally posted by despondent:
so since cannot be 100% sure may as well take the calculated ''risk'' tat there is no god...ok, we leave it as tat...
despondent,
You did on many times try to tell me that belief in jesus is required to be saved.
And when I tell you it might not be the case, you insist jesus is required.
So now I know you are not 100% sure, like me, then I am ok with you. :)
Yes its good that you admit thatyou are not 100% sure, because I am not 100% sure if theres no god too!
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Then this is still begging the question and assumung that baptism is required for salvation. In any case, how is this really different from the thief on the cross scenario? At that time the thief's problem is also no time and he will not be allowed to come down, be baptised, and then re-crucified again.
BIC,
despondent is openminded, unlike you.
despondent is on a dialogue, not a monologue.
We can agree to disagrree.
Strangley, but i cant do that with you
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Buddhism emphasize on us "saving ourselves"....every word, thought and action will have Karma (consequences) attached to it...we must depend on our good efforts....then can we be reborn into the higher realms of existence...in order to be completely free from the cycles of birth, old age, sickness and death, we must practice dilligently, maybe for afew lifetimes and become a buddha... eventually....
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
Lol...
Some christians will disagree with you as well!
Some christians believe non-christians can go to heaven! And yes they quote bible verses and articles too!
Can quote Bible verses you get cold feet and all confused again? See what I mean? You do not have the proper foundation to evaluate what Christians say. You see chapter and verse your brain all freezed up and you go into confused mode.
You got chapter and verse? Bring it on. Let's debate and reason it out. I can tell you, many times the effort to do this pays off because you can form an opinion as to who has the better argument. But of course if your Bible knowledge is shallow to begin with you have no tools and base to evaluate anything at all. If you are not competent to begin with, then it is no wonder that you are confused.
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Buddhism emphasize on us "saving ourselves"....every word, thought and action will have Karma (consequences) attached to it...we must depend on our good efforts....then can we be reborn into the higher realms of existence...in order to be completely free from the cycles of birth, old age, sickness and death, we must practice dilligently, maybe for afew lifetimes and become a buddha... eventually....
I think it makes more sense in buddhism because we take responsibility for our own actions.
We dont wait for someone to saveus, nor do we expect that someone "has already" saved us from ourwrongdoings.
No one should be our scapegoat. We ourselves must bear our wrongdoings, not another.