1+1+1 = 1 ?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism's_view_of_Jesus
despondent , try reading the above wikipedia article.
Of course wikipedia isnt the BEST source, but it is a reasonable source.
Also, this http://judaism.about.com/od/judaismbasics/a/Jewish-View-Of-Jesus.htm
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yes all these i noe...i tink the info we have are similar...jew who saw the man as jesus a misguided prophet...tats like the book telling me tat they believe the one who came wasnt Jesus the Son of God...
may i introduce another thing which christianity believes was created by God? the family...u see families in human form,. animal form and even plants...again, this was my way to help determine the religion to follow...why would God create the family idea/comcept if he himself doesnt have a family desire in him? The holy trinity suggests a family called God where there is the father, son and holy spirit...in Judaism and islam, God is a standalone, no son or holy spirit as part of one family...family is abt r/s and this reinforces a relational God...
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Originally posted by despondent:
yes all these i noe...i tink the info we have are similar...jew who saw the man as jesus a misguided prophet...tats like the book telling me tat they believe the one who came wasnt Jesus the Son of God...
may i introduce another thing which christianity believes was created by God? the family...u see families in human form,. animal form and even plants...again, this was my way to help determine the religion to follow...why would God create the family idea/comcept if he himself doesnt have a family desire in him? The holy trinity suggests a family called God where there is the father, son and holy spirit...in Judaism and islam, God is a standalone, no son or holy spirit as part of one family...family is abt r/s and this reinforces a relational God...
despondent,
1. It is not the same. You are saying jews are expecting jesus to come back to save them. But that's wrong. In judaism, jews do not expect jesus to come and save them because to jews, jesus was misguided. :)
2. Ok now you are talking about the trinity. But in the bible on many occasions, Jesus himself denies being God.
In luke, "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.
And this is not the only verse that tells us that Jesus isn't God.
In another verse, it says that only the Father and not Jesus, knows the time of the end of the world. And since God has to be all-knowing, Jesus is obviously not God because he doesnt know the time of the end.
Mark 24: 32-36:
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only -
Take note that I am not a christian. I am just using your christian bible to show YOU as a christian, that the bible rejects jesus being a God.
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this one i asked b4 and got an answer which satisfied me...i cun explain it here cos i am no expoert for this but u need to look across several scriptures b4 u can understand it...when jesus said those things, he said it when on earth in human form...in human form he didnt noe the hour and theres another scripture where Jesus said: I and God are one. in Genesis, God said let US make man...why did God say let US if nth else exist except himself??? u need to understand tat when on earth n in human form, Jesus said many things in submission to his father as a son...i would say Jesus was human physically but God in essence since he was born sinless and of the holy spirit...tats wad i can remember regarding this...the answer i got was much more concrete though...
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i believe Harry Potter and Darth Vader are real.........
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Originally posted by despondent:
this one i asked b4 and got an answer which satisfied me...i cun explain it here cos i am no expoert for this but u need to look across several scriptures b4 u can understand it...when jesus said those things, he said it when on earth in human form...in human form he didnt noe the hour and theres another scripture where Jesus said: I and God are one. in Genesis, God said let US make man...why did God say let US if nth else exist except himself??? u need to understand tat when on earth n in human form, Jesus said many things in submission to his father as a son...i would say Jesus was human physically but God in essence since he was born sinless and of the holy spirit...tats wad i can remember regarding this...the answer i got was much more concrete though...
Hi despondent
1. Jews believe in the old testament (genesis) and they do not see the "let us" verse as an explanation for trinity.
2. Why don't you trust what jesus said? He already very clearly said that only God is good and not him.
3. So you are saying jesus was not all-knowing on earth? Then how could he have been 100% god and 100% man? Thats contradicting. Trinity concept contradicts itself
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Tcmc, are you a buddhist? If not, what's your religion ?
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Demon Bane
I don't have any religions right now. I was a christian.
But now I am keen to study, discuss and explore any religion :)
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How about you?
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
Demon Bane
I don't have any religions right now. I was a christian.
But now I am keen to study, discuss and explore any religion :)
So what makes you give up Christianity ? Is Buddhism more relevant to you ?
I'm a buddhist....
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Gave up christianity because
1. Some issues with the bible.
2. Christianity prevented me from knowing and studying other religions.
I was a buddist about 15 years ago before i converted to Christianity.
If you're talking about theistic Buddhism where people pray to Buddha as a deity and offer food etc., I am not interested.
If you're talking about non-theistic Buddhism, about truths about living life and meditation, I might be interested.
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Tcmc
I'm curious, which church did you attend when you were Christian?
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
Gave up christianity because
1. Some issues with the bible.
2. Christianity prevented me from knowing and studying other religions.
I was a buddist about 15 years ago before i converted to Christianity.
If you're talking about theistic Buddhism where people pray to Buddha as a deity and offer food etc., I am not interested.
If you're talking about non-theistic Buddhism, about truths about living life and meditation, I might be interested.
Oh....I'm buddhist in my heart, as meditation type ! Trying to awaken to the inner truth myself....
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Originally posted by Servant:
Tcmc
I'm curious, which church did you attend when you were Christian?
Servant
I was from a not-small-not-big local church. Anyway that doesn't matter because I don't have issues with the church but with the scriptures.
Also, Servant, you have not responded to my previous question.
"Servant
I am only saying that there's a difference bwteen a religious book and an official historical record.
I did not say I am correct or that you're wrong. I am asking you as a christian, to authenticate the supernatural claims of ascension, resurrection and healings in your bible.
Why do you skip the question?
Please help me out by attempting to prove the miracles in the bible. Thanks."
Would you be able to authenticate the supernatural claims in the bible, that is to provide evidence that these miracles are possible and that they actually took place? (E.g the ascension and resurrection actually took place with evidence)
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Oh....I'm buddhist in my heart, as meditation type ! Trying to awaken to the inner truth myself....
Hi Demon Bane
Cool. I would love to meditate and learn more about Buddhist truths etc. Haha. Which buddhist organisation to you go to?
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
Hi Demon Bane
Cool. I would love to meditate and learn more about Buddhist truths etc. Haha. Which buddhist organisation to you go to?
I am practicing meditation by myself...sitting quietly, meditating about the truths of life in general...sometimes I'll meditate on nothingness etc...sometimes I focus on breathing etc..
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Servant
If you can't answer my question, let's go back to the topic.
Trinity.
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tcmc,
but jesus himself said: I and God are one. So how?
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to tcmc,
http://www.evidencetobelieve.net/the_holy_trinity.htm
sth for u to read...i can understand why the jews dun see jesus as part of the trinity but read wad jesus said in the book of John...
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Originally posted by despondent:
tcmc,
but jesus himself said: I and God are one. So how?
despondent,
A few reasons -
1. When jesus said that, it doesn't mean he's god. It's like a girl who loves a guy. She will say she and him are one, but they are not the same person.
2. Jesus did really mean that he is one with god, and part of the trinity
3. The bible is contradicting, because some verses imply that jesus is god, yet many verses also imply he's not.
Which reason is it, you think? And why
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despondent,
For every question, there are always a few possibilities. Why stick to one possibility?
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u see, u dun have a creationist mindset...i believed in creation and God rite from the start...and for God to be God(if he exist), he must be one who doesnt contradict himself cos tat would make him an uncertain God and hence imperfect...
so yes, while there may be a few possiblities, these possibilities contradict each other...so as a believer of a God who doesnt lie and contradict his Word(bible), only one of these possibilities can be correct...
remember the family concept i told u abt? the bible clearly states tat theres God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit...notice the word ''God'' is common among all 3 persons??? so a 3-in-1 God would mean a family consisting of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit...its like u and ur dad belongs to the same family, bearing the same surname...u are the son, he is the father...why would the son say on one is good except my father? cos although both father and son belong to the same family, its the father who bot the hse u lived in, see to everything in the family...in biblical terms, God the Father was the one who created everything good(according to the bible)...Jesus is not the creator, his rols is the Son who came as a sacrifice to unite man to God...his role is to do the works of God on earth...but think of this, who is the originator of good in this case? its God the Father not God the Son...so who is good...only God the Father since ultimately he is the one who made everything good...
i mentioned earlier tat creationistic people will usually have a standard set of beliefs...reason being such ppl believe in a God who doesnt contradict himself so ther must be a correct set of beliefs among the contradicting possibilities...hope u understand wad i mean...
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despondent..
1. But obviously the bible contradicts itself. because some verses imply that jesus is god, yet many verses also imply he's not. If the verses contradict themselves, how do you conclude that trinity is right because some verses say that jesus isn't God? How?
2. Your example of family is wrong. In a family, the husband has sex with the wife to bear children. How can you use a family to compare it to Jesus-Father-Holyspirit?
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u are looking at it differently...Father and Son, wad does it remind u of? father having sex wif wife is looking at it from human pt of view...creationists see things from spiritual pt of view...
i said b4, God cannot contradict himself so wdever verses tat seem contradictory must be contradictory cos they have been taken out of context, interpreted based on English translation and nt original greek/hebrew...a proper study of the bible would require cross-referencing across diff books, diff testaments etc...
btw, did u read the link i sent to u?