Originally posted by sgdiehard:why don't you ask the hindus, the muslims and the taoists about their experience? why ask a christian?
and why don't you let rooney says what he means?
sgdiehard, you ask me why I ask christians about their experiences? LOL. YOU were the one who claim that your christian experiences validate your god. So that is why I am counter-asking you about the hindus and muslims. Please don't keep skipping my questions.
Tell me. If your religious experiences validate your god, do the other religious experiences from other religions validate their gods too?
Also, you asked me why i wanna know about the evidence of the bible's authencity. Yes I wanna know because I wanna learn. Could you please help me out? You dont have to be a scientist to be able to autheticate the bible right?
Originally posted by despondent:cos tcmc believes christianity is by evidence nt by faith...have evidence then i believe...in the 1st place, evidence goes wif knowledge not believe...faith goes wif believe...btw tcmc, i replied to this thread cos of the TS...my intention wasnt to reply to u...so i will leave it badzmaro and the rest...the holy trinity explanation is one of my fortes but nt the evidence of miracles tat u are asking for...
I think this is smart, I am out of here too.
sgdiehard
I am sicnerely looking for answers yet you keep skipping these important questions. The bible says that christians should be ready to reason and explain so that others will believe.
Yet for all of our conversations, you chose to skip questions, criticise my curiosity and not attend to my queries about your religion.
Lol. And you even ask me things that you yourself questioned.
Originally posted by sgdiehard:I think this is smart, I am out of here too.
sgdiehard, I have sincere questions below -
1. Can you authenticate the bible? Can you prove that the contents in the modern bible are the same as the contents in the bible that the disciples used 2000 years ago?
2. You said that experiences validate your God. So I am curious if you also think that other experiences validate other Gods?
Ok if you cannot answer these questions, let me know so I wont ask you. I hope you can answer though. :) Cheers.
TCmc, despondent already said christianity is based on faith. To this point it is clear they are worshipping and believing in God without evidence. You keep on asking for evidence which they cannot help by giving you any proof.
Such is christianity lol, that is why God does not encourage christians to question. Doubting is a sin. I was taught not to use intellect when worshippng God or where God is concerned.
May be you may want to consider to learn about other religions, you keep asking for evidence from Christianity gets you no where.
winsomeea
So you are saying christians believe without evidence? Do you speak for all christians?
And also I was directing question to sgdiehard and despondent. Yes despondent has answered but not sgdiehard.
Originally posted by Tcmc:winsomeea
So you are saying christians believe without evidence? Do you speak for all christians?
And also I was directing question to sgdiehard and despondent. Yes despondent has answered but not sgdiehard.
Basically christianity works by faith not evidence or good works.
Try Buddhism.
to tcmc,
have u ever questioned the authencity of the photos of those geniuses like einstein, newton n edison? we have seen photos of them but are they authentic or made up? have u ever qn abt those? if u can accept them as authentic without questioning, why cun u do the same for the bible? btw, i believe buddha existed as a person nt cos i have seen evidence or photos of his existence but cos i believe its possible for a great teacher to exist...i dun need evidence before believing buddha existed...
to winsomea,
if christianity was by faith alone and nt by any proofs or evidence, i would nt have answered the holy trinity wif those analogies...i would have said, believe the 3-in-1 concept by faith...but did i say tat?
to tcmc,
i tink certain things in life, we have to 1st go by faith then evidence will follow. eg, u see a doctor, he gives u medicine u have nvr taken b4...u consume the medicine by faith tat the doctor is riter in his prescription...few days later, u indeed got better...this is evidence tat the doctor gave u medicine nt to harm u but to heal u...u see, u have to 1st have faith to trust the doctor b4 receiving the evidence tat his prescription is correct...
despondent,
I don't question einstein, newton and edison records/writings/photographs because
1. There are supporting evidence for the records/writiings/photographs and ample of it available.
2. Edison, einsterin and newton did not do things that are "out of the ordinary" like they did not claim to heal people and they did not claim to have ascended into heaven. THe things they did and wrote were logical and factual. So there's not much need to question. However, the disciples and jesus himself do claim a lot of "out of the ordinary things" in the bible. Therefore I am asking if any christian is willing to authenticate the accounts in the bible.
despondent,
it is not true that I go by faith when I go to the doctor. When we see a doctor, we make sure he is certified and approved by the authorites and that he has the relevant qualifications in medicine. Then we need to also know what medicine he is giving us.
I DO NOT go to the doctor by faith. Maybe you do, but that is very dangerous for your health?
how do u noe the supporting evidence is original or authentic? how do u noe the doctor's certification is nt doctored? cos ur eyes tells u so?
Originally posted by despondent:to winsomea,
if christianity was by faith alone and nt by any proofs or evidence, i would nt have answered the holy trinity wif those analogies...i would have said, believe the 3-in-1 concept by faith...but did i say tat?
to tcmc,
i tink certain things in life, we have to 1st go by faith then evidence will follow. eg, u see a doctor, he gives u medicine u have nvr taken b4...u consume the medicine by faith tat the doctor is riter in his prescription...few days later, u indeed got better...this is evidence tat the doctor gave u medicine nt to harm u but to heal u...u see, u have to 1st have faith to trust the doctor b4 receiving the evidence tat his prescription is correct...
What are you driving at? Did I say you say that>? Crap, you pickingup a quarrel? It is true Christianity is by faith, then now you trying to say it is not? YOu trying to pick up fight?
its nt 100% by faith...i am nt picking a fight...i wun reply to u anymore since u cun be as diplomatic as tcmc...cheers
Originally posted by Tcmc:winsomeea
So you are saying christians believe without evidence? Do you speak for all christians?
And also I was directing question to sgdiehard and despondent. Yes despondent has answered but not sgdiehard.
winsomeea gave his answer from a non Christian point of view, despondent from a Christian point of view. period
Originally posted by despondent:its nt 100% by faith...i am nt picking a fight...i wun reply to u anymore since u cun be as diplomatic as tcmc...cheers
You yourself are not diplomatic so don't point finger, hypocrite. Don't give the crap it is not 100% by faith.
You are not as diplomatic as sgdiehard, you are a hypocrite. Hypocritical christians build wall and not bridges for encouraging non believers to christianity.
despondent
Yes we cant tell by looking at the certificates that they are real. Therefore we can go a further step to check with the authorities or check with the schools that he attended, I mean if we really want to, we CAN find out if he's a real doctor. Systems are in place to ensure the doctors at our clinic are qualified. My point is there are MANY things in place to authenticate a doctor's professionalism and we can also check it up.
No back to the bible. Yes by looking at it, we do not know if it's authentic or not, similar to the doctors' certification. That is why now I am asking you or any christian to TRY to authenticate it. I am willing to listen.
There is a way to authenticate edison/newton's writings and doctors' certificates. But my question is - is there a way to authenticate the bible? If so, please share.
Originally posted by sgdiehard:winsomeea gave his answer from a non Christian point of view, despondent from a Christian point of view. period
No no, sgdiehard. YOu are wrong, I was a christian who gave the points according to what I was taught.
Tell me how is it that despondent said it is not 100% faith in christianity when in Sunday School we were taught , it is by faith.
to sgdiehard:
but tcmc doesnt really follow wad either of us say...he has his own views which i respect...i like discussing wif tcmc though...
Originally posted by Tcmc:despondent,
I don't question einstein, newton and edison records/writings/photographs because
1. There are supporting evidence for the records/writiings/photographs and ample of it available.
2. Edison, einsterin and newton did not do things that are "out of the ordinary" like they did not claim to heal people and they did not claim to have ascended into heaven. THe things they did and wrote were logical and factual. So there's not much need to question. However, the disciples and jesus himself do claim a lot of "out of the ordinary things" in the bible. Therefore I am asking if any christian is willing to authenticate the accounts in the bible.
despondent,
it is not true that I go by faith when I go to the doctor. When we see a doctor, we make sure he is certified and approved by the authorites and that he has the relevant qualifications in medicine. Then we need to also know what medicine he is giving us.
I DO NOT go to the doctor by faith. Maybe you do, but that is very dangerous for your health?
I agree.
But be prepared that there will be christians who say that they don't need doctors. They just need to have faith that God will heal them so doctors not needed. When I was a christian my christian friend scolded me for going to see doctor. She said I have no faith in God that he will heal me.
Originally posted by winsomeea:I agree.
But be prepared that there will be christians who say that they don't need doctors. They just need to have faith that God will heal them so doctors not needed. When I was a christian my christian friend scolded me for going to see doctor. She said I have no faith in God that he will heal me.
winsomeea
Yes I have met christians who discourage seeing doctors but to pray BUT I have also seen christians who rush to the doctors the minute they fall sick. :)
tcmc,
u missed my pt...yes, theres a way to authenticate but do we do tat b4 seeing the doctor? do we authenticate those photos b4 believing they are really photos of those geniuses??? we usually dun but we still believe in the doctors and tat those are indeed photos of the geniuses...so my qn nw is why cun we do the same for the bible?
i am nt equipped wif knowledge on how to authenticate the bible...i tink someone alredi posted in this thread tat he read tat the dead sea scrolls were the original but u said u read tat they were nt...the qn seems nw tat either one of u are rite...u seem to have chosen to believe tat wd u read is correct(dead sea scrolls nt original) n the other person is wrong...
"Faith is is the substance of the things hope for, EVIDENCE of the things nt seen...''
Originally posted by despondent:tcmc,
u missed my pt...yes, theres a way to authenticate but do we do tat b4 seeing the doctor? do we authenticate those photos b4 believing they are really photos of those geniuses??? we usually dun but we still believe in the doctors and tat those are indeed photos of the geniuses...so my qn nw is why cun we do the same for the bible?
i am nt equipped wif knowledge on how to authenticate the bible...i tink someone alredi posted in this thread tat he read tat the dead sea scrolls were the original but u said u read tat they were nt...the qn seems nw tat either one of u are rite...u seem to have chosen to believe tat wd u read is correct(dead sea scrolls nt original) n the other person is wrong...
"Faith is is the substance of the things hope for, EVIDENCE of the things nt seen...''
Don;t quote that that I posted, I was very not "diplomatic" to you. Be original!
despondent
Ok yes most of us dont authenticate but we visit because we know systems are in place for authentication and that is NOT FAITH.
despondent,
the dead sea scrolls (OLD TESTAMENT) are written in 150BCE ,which is about 2150 years ago. The original OLD TESTAMENT is supposed to be 4000 years ago. You can't tell from these dates that the dead sea scrolls are not the originals?
christian historians who are well versed in christian history will tell you too that the dead sea scrolls are old, BUT not the originals
despondent
Ok yes most of us dont authenticate but we visit because we know systems are in place for authentication and that is NOT FAITH. Is there a system in place to authenticate the bible so we can trust the bible in a similar way?