Originally posted by BroInChrist:
What's wrong with the question? It's a troll question asked by a troll who's on a roll playing the troll.
BIC
It is a valid question, since for religious people, they believe that everything is caused by an allknowing, allpowerful being.
So it is a valid question and you might have to answer it instead of diverting attention
Originally posted by Tcmc:
BICIt is a valid question, since for religious people, they believe that everything is caused by an allknowing, allpowerful being.
So it is a valid question and you might have to answer it instead of diverting attention
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
If it was a truly valid question I would have answered it. But coming from Rooney and knowing his anti-Christian inclination, it would not be a wise thing to feed the troll.
It is a valid question.
You dont want to answer because -
1. You dont know how to
2. You know your answer would be amusing and as usual, baseless
Originally posted by Tcmc:It is a valid question.
You dont want to answer because -
1. You dont know how to
2. You know your answer would be amusing and as usual, baseless
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Nope. It was clearly a troll question asked by a troll with every intention to troll this forum.
Is this a new method of diverting from question you couldnt answer, by calling other trolls, when some people has pointed out how baffled they are with your avoidance?
Wow...
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Nope. It was clearly a troll question asked by a troll with every intention to troll this forum.
New method to divert question huh?
Please answer.
Did God cause the eclispe?
I do want to know christian's opinion. Inter-faith dialogue. :)
Originally posted by Tcmc:New method to divert question huh?
Please answer.
Did God cause the eclispe?
I do want to know christian's opinion. Inter-faith dialogue. :)
Tcmc,
Tell me, in the Biblical worldview, who sets the laws of nature in place? Who created the sun, moon, planets and put them in their orbit to mark out the times and seasons? Do you even know where this answer is found? Clue: It's not in the Gospels.
Originally posted by BroInChrist:Tcmc,
Tell me, in the Biblical worldview, who sets the laws of nature in place? Who created the sun, moon, planets and put them in their orbit to mark out the times and seasons? Do you even know where this answer is found? Clue: It's not in the Gospels.
BIC
According to christian religion, the Bible God is the one who sets the laws of natures.
I answered you.
So is He the one who also cause all natural phenomenon? E.g Eclispe, earthquakes, typhoons, volanic eruptions, lightning etc
Originally posted by Tcmc:BIC
According to christian religion, the Bible God is the one who sets the laws of natures.
I answered you.
So is He the one who also cause all natural phenomenon? E.g Eclispe, earthquakes, typhoons, volanic eruptions, lightning etc
Tcmc,
You can't reason out the second answer from the first? Why not hazard a guess and let me evaluate whether your years of Bible study shows itself?
Originally posted by BroInChrist:Tcmc,
You can't reason out the second answer from the first? Why not hazard a guess and let me evaluate whether your years of Bible study shows itself?
Ok dont skirt the question.
I have answered you. According to the christian religion, the Bible God is the one who sets the laws of nature.
Now I am asking you another question. I am not assuming anything yet. Just want to know your opinion.
What do you believe about God and natural phenomenons like eclispe, earthquakes etc.?
Are they independent of each other?
Originally posted by Tcmc:Ok dont skirt the question.
I have answered you. According to the christian religion, the Bible God is the one who sets the laws of nature.
Now I am asking you another question. I am not assuming anything yet. Just want to know your opinion.
What do you believe about God and natural phenomenons like eclispe, earthquakes etc.?
Are they independent of each other?
Tcmc,
Taking the easy way out? I'm not giving the game away just yet. Please demonstrate what you know first. Why should I let you have all the fun of throwing rocks at my answers. Show me what your so-called Christian training was like. Prove your knowledge. Demonstrate your credibility.
BIC
What exactly is it that you want to know about the Christian God from an atheist like me?
Pls state clearly.
Thanks. Then I will answer.
And then you will answer my questions. No point diverting
Originally posted by Tcmc:BIC
What exactly is it that you want to know about the Christian God from an atheist like me?
Pls state clearly.
Thanks. Then I will answer.
And then you will answer my questions. No point diverting
Tcmc,
You bragged about your glorious Christian past and Bible study exploits. How come now I ask you to regurgitate what you claimed to know you like playing hard to get?
Originally posted by BroInChrist:Tcmc,
You bragged about your glorious Christian past and Bible study exploits. How come now I ask you to regurgitate what you claimed to know you like playing hard to get?
Oh when I was a christian, I believed the Bible God caused natural phenomenon like earthquakes and typhoons. And when I was a christian, I believed that he caused natural disasters to punish mankind. That was WHEN I WAS still a christian.
How about you? Are you like this too?
Originally posted by Tcmc:Oh when I was a christian, I believed the Bible God caused natural phenomenon like earthquakes and typhoons. And when I was a christian, I believed that he caused natural disasters to punish mankind. That was WHEN I WAS still a christian.
How about you? Are you like this too?
Tcmc,
I find this answer from Creation.com:
Each day, some hundreds of thousands of people die. So the question becomes much bigger; not just “why 9/11” or “why the tsunami tragedy”—it becomes one of “why is there any death and suffering at all?” And it has to be faced squarely by Christians, since we claim to have the answers to the true meaning of life, the universe and everything.
But how can one even begin to give a Christian answer, one with biblical integrity, without taking Genesis history seriously? That history tells of the creation of a once-good world, in which death and suffering are not “natural” at all, but are intruders. They occur because of humanity’s rebellion against its maker. But if fossils formed over millions of years, which so many Christians just blithely accept as “fact”, then that wipes out the Fall as an answer to evil, especially “natural evil”. Because the fossils show the existence of things like death, bloodshed and suffering. So if these were there millions of years ago, they must have been there before man, and hence before sin. This is the rock against which old-age compromises inevitably founder. This is also the reason why the age of things is not some obscure academic debate that Christians can put in the “too-hard-for-now” basket. Because it strikes to the heart of the hugest questions of all in relation to the nature of God, sin, evil, death; questions at the very core of Christian belief (or reasons given for nonbelief, for that matter).
When we try, however inadequately, to see things from God’s viewpoint rather than our own, things become quite different. There is suddenly nothing unfair about the deaths of any one of us, no matter what the circumstances. God is the sovereign Judge who is totally holy. It would therefore be impossible to overstate His utter abhorrence of even the slightest sin. From His perspective, it would be totally lawful and just to wipe out all of us, in whatever fashion. But God is also merciful and loving, and longsuffering. In the most profound display of mercy and grace imaginable, He stepped into our shoes as a man, God the Son. He came to suffer and die, not in some sort of ooey-gooey martyrdom, but so that His righteous anger against sin could be appeased and the penalty paid for those who place their trust in Jesus Christ and receive His free gift—forgiveness of their sin and admission into God’s family—by faith.
There are daily reminders of His Curse on all creation all around us. When they are punctuated by horrifically sad concentrated bursts such as this recent disaster, we are doubly reminded of the awfulness of sin. Does knowing the answers to the “big picture” make us callous to suffering? Far from it. We are moved even more by compassion, just as the Lord Jesus was when He lived among us. Because of Jesus, Christians—those who take the Bible as the Word of God, and know Jesus Christ as the Creator incarnate—will tend to be at the forefront of digging into their pockets to help alleviate the agony.
Originally posted by BroInChrist:Tcmc,
I find this answer from Creation.com:
Each day, some hundreds of thousands of people die. So the question becomes much bigger; not just “why 9/11” or “why the tsunami tragedy”—it becomes one of “why is there any death and suffering at all?” And it has to be faced squarely by Christians, since we claim to have the answers to the true meaning of life, the universe and everything.
But how can one even begin to give a Christian answer, one with biblical integrity, without taking Genesis history seriously? That history tells of the creation of a once-good world, in which death and suffering are not “natural” at all, but are intruders. They occur because of humanity’s rebellion against its maker. But if fossils formed over millions of years, which so many Christians just blithely accept as “fact”, then that wipes out the Fall as an answer to evil, especially “natural evil”. Because the fossils show the existence of things like death, bloodshed and suffering. So if these were there millions of years ago, they must have been there before man, and hence before sin. This is the rock against which old-age compromises inevitably founder. This is also the reason why the age of things is not some obscure academic debate that Christians can put in the “too-hard-for-now” basket. Because it strikes to the heart of the hugest questions of all in relation to the nature of God, sin, evil, death; questions at the very core of Christian belief (or reasons given for nonbelief, for that matter).
When we try, however inadequately, to see things from God’s viewpoint rather than our own, things become quite different. There is suddenly nothing unfair about the deaths of any one of us, no matter what the circumstances. God is the sovereign Judge who is totally holy. It would therefore be impossible to overstate His utter abhorrence of even the slightest sin. From His perspective, it would be totally lawful and just to wipe out all of us, in whatever fashion. But God is also merciful and loving, and longsuffering. In the most profound display of mercy and grace imaginable, He stepped into our shoes as a man, God the Son. He came to suffer and die, not in some sort of ooey-gooey martyrdom, but so that His righteous anger against sin could be appeased and the penalty paid for those who place their trust in Jesus Christ and receive His free gift—forgiveness of their sin and admission into God’s family—by faith.
There are daily reminders of His Curse on all creation all around us. When they are punctuated by horrifically sad concentrated bursts such as this recent disaster, we are doubly reminded of the awfulness of sin. Does knowing the answers to the “big picture” make us callous to suffering? Far from it. We are moved even more by compassion, just as the Lord Jesus was when He lived among us. Because of Jesus, Christians—those who take the Bible as the Word of God, and know Jesus Christ as the Creator incarnate—will tend to be at the forefront of digging into their pockets to help alleviate the agony.
BIC
Thanks for giving me a christian understanding. But you havent really answered?
Are natural phenomenon caused by God directly?
Or are they independent of each other?
Originally posted by Tcmc:BIC
Thanks for giving me a christian understanding. But you havent really answered?
Are natural phenomenon caused by God directly?
Or are they independent of each other?
Tcmc,
You failed to read the answer given. It's there. Nothing in this universe is independent of God. Didn't you know, that God upholds the universe by the power of His Word? Things that happen in this world follows the laws of nature that God established and uphold. Even in a fallen and cursed world God still upholds the laws of nature. Earthquakes and disasters do not violate natural laws. They happen because we live in a fallen world. In a perfect Edenic world there are no such things, and thus no death or suffering. Having said that, SOME disasters are decreed by God, but not in violation of the laws of nature. The global flood is an example. It was sent by God as judgement upon the wicked world, but no natural laws were violated. Water still seek the lowest point and rain water still fall to the ground. Mountains rose and valleys sank. Hydraulic forces were at work, carving out canyons and laying down layers upon layers of sediments that caught animals and rapidly caused them to become fossils without needing millions of years.
Originally posted by BroInChrist:Tcmc,
You failed to read the answer given. It's there. Nothing in this universe is independent of God. Didn't you know, that God upholds the universe by the power of His Word? Things that happen in this world follows the laws of nature that God established and uphold. Even in a fallen and cursed world God still upholds the laws of nature. Earthquakes and disasters do not violate natural laws. They happen because we live in a fallen world. In a perfect Edenic world there are no such things, and thus no death or suffering. Having said that, SOME disasters are decreed by God, but not in violation of the laws of nature. The global flood is an example. It was sent by God as judgement upon the wicked world, but no natural laws were violated. Water still seek the lowest point and rain water still fall to the ground. Mountains rose and valleys sank. Hydraulic forces were at work, carving out canyons and laying down layers upon layers of sediments that caught animals and rapidly caused them to become fossils without needing millions of years.
So you said "Earthquakes and disasters do not violate natural laws. They happen because we live in a fallen world. "
Lol. So natural phenomenon happen because of sins? Isnt that what the ancient greeks believe too?
Originally posted by Tcmc:So you said "Earthquakes and disasters do not violate natural laws. They happen because we live in a fallen world. "
Lol. So natural phenomenon happen because of sins? Isnt that what the ancient greeks believe too?
Tcmc,
Do the Greeks really believe that? Document it please. Oh and I should let you know too, even if they do believe something like that it is no argument against the Bible's teaching at all. Since the Bible teaches that all men were descended from Noah and his family, and dispersed at the Tower of Babel, it is no surprise that there can be some commonality in beliefs, which would have been embellished by the various cultures over time. But the true record is that found in the Bible.
Originally posted by BroInChrist:Tcmc,
Do the Greeks really believe that? Document it please. Oh and I should let you know too, even if they do believe something like that it is no argument against the Bible's teaching at all. Since the Bible teaches that all men were descended from Noah and his family, and dispersed at the Tower of Babel, it is no surprise that there can be some commonality in beliefs, which would have been embellished by the various cultures over time. But the true record is that found in the Bible.
Natural disaster caused by sin.
Great. Win.
And I thought earthquakes were caused by tetonic plate movements and typhoons by air currents and heavy rain by the water cycle.
Well, cant blame you. Most religions do teach that.
That is why many Animist religions in the tribal regions also pay sacrifices to Nature because they are afraid that Nature will harm them because of their sins
Originally posted by Tcmc:Natural disaster caused by sin.
Great. Win.
And I thought earthquakes were caused by tetonic plate movements and typhoons by air currents and heavy rain by the water cycle.
Well, cant blame you. Most religions do teach that.
That is why many Animist religions in the tribal regions also pay sacrifices to Nature because they are afraid that Nature will harm them because of their sins
Tcmc,
1. You missed the point still. If nobody ever dies from natural disasters, you got a problem with that? Nope. The whole point of your anti-Christian polemic is the so-called problem of evil, that people die in such disasters, even though in your evolutionary worldview death is a "good" thing so I wonder what are you really complaining about!
2. Did I ever deny plate tectonics? Nope. Again this shows how you deliberately caricature my beliefs just to make me look bad and anti-science. Again such tactics give the lie away that you are just an innocent seeker of the truth.
Originally posted by BroInChrist:Tcmc,
1. You missed the point still. If nobody ever dies from natural disasters, you got a problem with that? Nope. The whole point of your anti-Christian polemic is the so-called problem of evil, that people die in such disasters, even though in your evolutionary worldview death is a "good" thing so I wonder what are you really complaining about!
2. Did I ever deny plate tectonics? Nope. Again this shows how you deliberately caricature my beliefs just to make me look bad and anti-science. Again such tactics give the lie away that you are just an innocent seeker of the truth.
1. Excuse me stop your name calling because I am not anti-christian. I have many reasonable good christian friends. I dont have a problem with people dying from disasters because well disasters are naturally caused and no one can prevent them. But it becomes complicated when an all-knowing, all-controlling, all-powerful being who created everything comes into the picture, who apprently love us all and cares for us all and is supposedly wise. That is when I find the "equation" problematic. Understand?
2. Sure. Someone was behind the plate tetonics right? What is it? Sin or Gods?
This discussion here is mei wan mei liao, you people here really have the patience!!!
Originally posted by Tcmc:1. Excuse me stop your name calling because I am not anti-christian. I have many reasonable good christian friends. I dont have a problem with people dying from disasters because well disasters are naturally caused and no one can prevent them. But it becomes complicated when an all-knowing, all-controlling, all-powerful being who created everything comes into the picture, who apprently love us all and cares for us all and is supposedly wise. That is when I find the "equation" problematic. Understand?
2. Sure. Someone was behind the plate tetonics right? What is it? Sin or Gods?
OK, my bad. You are not anti-Christian, but anti-Christianity and anti-Bible. Better?
OK, so you don't have a problem with people dying, so it's all good as far as you are concerned ya? People die, so be it. Good riddance, onward with evolution!
So tell me, why are you so bothered with the Christian explanation that we live in a cursed and fallen world because of sin, and that is why people die from natural disasters? The Bible teach that death and suffering came about because of a moral failure, when Adam and Eve sinned. As such death is the enemy of life (which is why people grieve when their loved ones die), and something to be destroyed at the end. But the atheist cannot even explain WHY there is life in the first place, or why there is death.
Re Plate tectonics, you seem to think that I am against that. Again you are just so wrong. See http://creation.com/catastrophic-plate-tectonics-the-geophysical-context-of-the-genesis-flood
An answer can be both theological and scientific, so I wonder why you must insist that they be mutually exclusive. God can used natural processes, can He not? The global flood clearly followed the laws of nature, with fountains of the deep bursting open and rains falling. But it also had a theological cause, for God sent the Flood to punish mankind. Scientists can describe how natural disasters take place, but can never tell us why natural disasters happen at all. At each stage they are merely describing what is, but not why. People die from cancer. Science can tell us at each stage what cancer does to the patient. But can science tell us why there is such a thing as cancer? The origins of cancer? They can't even explain the origin of life for crying out loud! My point: Don't look down on theological answers and beware of scientism. It's not that you reject Christianity, you simply replaced it with another religion, scientism.
Originally posted by winsomeea:This discussion here is mei wan mei liao, you people here really have the patience!!!
Its quite easy leh
When u have people like BIC who doesnt have the knowledge, its easy to make fool out of them