1+1+1 = 1 ?
-
Originally posted by despondent:
its part of tat unit...3-in-1 unit...when jesus said he and God are one, the holy spirit was nt yet released to mankind...Holy spirit was sent to earth only after jesus resurrected and went back to heaven...its in the bible...
Holy spirit is already in the new testament before resurrection of Christ. -
Originally posted by winsomeea:
Oh, It is so clear you are faultfinding, hahahahahhahahahahahha! So judgemental, you will be judged by God!
hahahahahah, your response is self pawned lol!!!!!!!!!!!! hahahahahahhahahahah! That is why i said it depends on how one perceives if I am nice. To christians, when i disagree with the bible I am not nice, you are one of them. To those kind, understanding and mature christians, they have no problem with people disagreeing with Christianity. So I am "guilty of that in this forum" Hey you are also guilty of finding fault , taking the specks out from others but you refuse to take the speck out of you, hahahahahahahahh!
Hey, how I see your response to non christians here is absolutely without love. THE ESSENCE OF CHRISTIANITY IS LOVE, THAT IS WHAT GOD WANTS HIS CHILDREN TO HAVE. AS A CHILD OF GOD, IF YOU REFUSE TO SHOW LOVE THEN YOU ARE NOT FIT TO TALK ABOUT GOD.
Wow, all I asked was whether you were being nice and you gave a nasty reply? That was totally uncalled for and totally not nice at all. Anyway, that's all for now with you.
-
yes but when was it given to humans...and when it was introduced by jesus to his disciples, was it before or after jesus said he and God are one? the sequence is impt...
-
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Wow, all I asked was whether you were being nice and you gave a nasty reply? That was totally uncalled for and totally not nice at all. Anyway, that's all for now with you.
You started the ball rolling by being nasty. You started to be uncalled for so don't expect that I don't expose your purpose of keep asking me the same question. So to say you can say what you want and I have to agree and if i don't agree you will keep trying find ways and means to find fault. That is self righteousness of yours which is a sin.That is not showing love, God does not want that.
-
Originally posted by despondent:
yes but when was it given to humans...and when it was introduced by jesus to his disciples, was it before or after jesus said he and God are one? the sequence is impt...
Hold on, I don't remember in the beginning of the new testament God gave holy spirit to humans. More like Jesus and holy spirit.
Holy Spirit is important in the bible as well as personal christian life of christians. I have heard cases whereby God using holy spirit to touch lives. Now I forgot most of them. hahahah.
-
actually if u categorise the bible in another way...the OT is mainly abt God the Father, then the 4 Gospels is mainly abt Jesus and the remaining of the NT is abt the Hoy Spirit...Jesus was the one who intro the Holy Spirit as a helper who will remain on earth after He himself has risen to heaven...
-
Originally posted by winsomeea:
Holy spirit is already in the new testament before resurrection of Christ.
xtian doesnt believe in ghosts, but believe in holy spirit
they deny or dun believe the existence of ghost, yet believe in the existence of spirits, how ironic
-
Originally posted by despondent:
actually if u categorise the bible in another way...the OT is mainly abt God the Father, then the 4 Gospels is mainly abt Jesus and the remaining of the NT is abt the Hoy Spirit...Jesus was the one who intro the Holy Spirit as a helper who will remain on earth after He himself has risen to heaven...
I agree. But what I am trying to say is that the holy spirit was already there in the beginning of the new testament.
Jesus cannot be there for them that was why Holy Spirit was introduced.
I have a question to ask, that walking on water by Jesus, was this with the help of the holy spirit or by Jesus' own power?
-
ghosts to christians are spirits...the Holy Spirit is sometimes referred to as Holy Ghost...dun tell me u dunno abt tis...
-
Originally posted by despondent:
ghosts to christians are spirits...the Holy Spirit is sometimes referred to as Holy Ghost...dun tell me u dunno abt tis...
it doesnt matter. what I am saying is this. spirits to other religions are ghosts.
go think thru what I want to imply here, the underlying message.
-
ok...fair enuff...juz tat it played a more passive role since jesus was still ard and it wasnt introduced yet to the ppl...i would say all 3 members of the Godhead had the same power but manifests it in different areas according to their roles...so i would say jesus did it wif his own Godly ability....
-
Originally posted by Rooney_07:
xtian doesnt believe in ghosts, but believe in holy spirit they deny or dun believe the existence of ghost, yet believe in the existence of spirits, how ironic
You gotta look at the context, ghosts and holy spirit are two different beings.
Just like in buddhism, ghost and Buddha are two different beings.
-
Originally posted by Tcmc:
1. Where did this incarnation doctrine come from? Or was it invented by men? If the message of incarnation is so important, why isn’t it clear in the bible? If it is the main message of the bible, it should be clear. Instead you quote verses that are unclear (no john 10 isn’t direct that is why there are alternative interpretations of who jesus is). If the bible is super crystal clear about jesus being god, very few people would question his nature. Why does your god want to leave people guessing? It’s dubious! Ever wonder why there are so many different interpretations among Christians about who jesus is or doctrinal differences? Answer is because your bible is too generic and unclear and believers interpret it in a thousand ways! I shall look past your name calling tactics (swine).
2. Again, because the bible is too generic and unclear, that is why some Christians think he’s god, some Christians don’t think he is. That’s why some Christians come up with the incarnation doctrine, some Christians don’t. Even jews who know the Hebrew language and believe in the old testament will tell you that God isn’t triune. (Note that your religion is copied/adapted from Judaism)
3.No no. Wait. Tell me WHY Hinduism creationism isn’t taught in schools? Please I need to know the answer.
4. I brought it up because you claim so proudly that Christians were in control a few hundred years back. Therefore I refute your point by telling you that theocracy isn’t good.
5. You’re arrogant because you claim an invisible friend of yours created everything, based on a 4000 year old book riddled with errors. That is why youre arrogant. Scientists who spend their whole lives studying and they are not conclusive. Yet you are conclusive just because your little book says so? Just because you feel good about it? Oh man, grow up dude. We are unsure of the beginning of the universe doesn’t mean we cannot elimate riduclous reasons. Like a fairy creating the universe. No. Santa claus creating the universe no. A 4000 year old god who said bats are birds creating the universe? No. I can dismiss that. But still I don’t know what was the beginning. Its not that I have nothing to offer. I told you there are theories. You can read up.
6. (Not all Christians believe in a 6000 year old universe) Again the bible is so generic and unclear, Christians interpret it in so many ways. From tongues, healings, prosperity gospel, nature of jesus to nature of heaven and hell, Christians quote the bible to say different things,
7. Excuse me if I were a jew I would stone him because he was being blasphemous, NOT BECAUSE HE WAS GOD. Even jews today hold the belief that jesus was misguided and a false prophet!
8. Just seeing if you’re open minded about other religions. Seems like you are not.
Tcmc,
1. The doctrine of the incarnation is clearly taught in the Bible. You can't see it because you aren't even looking. Again John 10 is crystal clear, Jesus' enemies said that they are stoning Him for claiming to be God. Which part of "We are stoning you for claiming to be God" do you not understand or is generic and vague?
2. Revelation in the Bible is progressive. Many Jews reject the OT because they failed to recognise Jesus as the Messiah. Yet many Jews have also believed upon Jesus as the Messiah. The deity of Jesus is fully proved from the Scriptures.
3. Red herring in that Hindu creation thingy. What do we do with red herrings? We ignore them. They are what they are, a distraction.
4. You failed to read properly. I said that many universities of note had Christian beginnings a few centuries ago. Had you been studying them you would not have called them pseudo-science. This is fact.
5. What would be arrogant would be someone saying that I should not be confident to speak of things of which he is ignorant of. You are so confident of there being no God, so why can't I be confident of there being a God. And moreover there are many scientists who believe in God, so please do not paint the wrong picture as if all scientists are atheists.
6. We are SURE that the universe has a beginning. And we are sure that the universe has a cause. While there are many scientists who refuse to think that God is the adequate cause of the universe, there are also many who have concluded that God is the best explanation. And you failed to produce any reason why belief in God is ridiculous. You mean your belief that the universe made itself is reasonable? Again the fact is that you are simply dismissing the Bible out of sheer prejudice and ignorance. Did you even ask why the Bible called bats as birds, or bothered to find out? I don't think you bothered to. Had you done the requisite research you would have found out the following:
"The Hebrew word for bird is actually owph which means “fowl/winged creature.” The word owph simply means “to fly” or “has a wing.” So, the word includes birds, bats, and even flying insects. The alleged problem appears due to translation of owp. The Hebrew word for bird is actually owph which means “fowl/winged creature.” The word owph simply means “to fly” or “has a wing.” So, the word includes birds, bats, and even flying insects. The alleged problem appears due to translation of owph as bird. Birds are included in the word owph, but owph is not limited to birds."
7. On the contrary, the Bible is pretty clear about the age of the earth such that prior to the rise of Darwinian evolution it was universally believed that the earth was not more than 6000 years old. It was the gradual chipping away at Biblical authority that led many Christians to depart from the plain sense meaning of the Bible.
8. Please don't presume things foolishly. Read the Bible, the charge of blasphemy was precisely because Jesus claimed to be God! Stick to what the text says OK?
9. Who are you to talk about me being open-minded about other religions when you are CLOSED to anything religious? You are just patronising other religions out there.
-
Originally posted by despondent:
ok...fair enuff...juz tat it played a more passive role since jesus was still ard and it wasnt introduced yet to the ppl...i would say all 3 members of the Godhead had the same power but manifests it in different areas according to their roles...so i would say jesus did it wif his own Godly ability....
ok.Are the unclean spirits and demons the same in the bible?
-
Tsk tsk tsk !
Where is the love?Where is God's love?
-
tis one i am not too sure but my take is tat demons manifest themselves as spirits...remember spirits are created by God the Father...when Satan rebelled, 1/3 of the angels followed him...christianity believes these are wad we call demons and MAYBE they manifest themselves as unclean spirits...
-
Originally posted by despondent:
tis one i am not too sure but my take is tat demons manifest themselves as spirits...remember spirits are created by God the Father...when Satan rebelled, 1/3 of the angels followed him...christianity believes these are wad we call demons and MAYBE they manifest themselves as unclean spirits...
It is confusing. I don't know, to me personally I would guess demons are more powerful than unclean spirits.
I am not sure if those serving in the deliverance team would know.
-
Originally posted by despondent:
to servant,
tcmc's logic is this...wadever is harder to believe requires more evidence for it to be credible...hence the miracles in the bible needs more evidence to support since its harder to believe tat they are possible then the existence of julius caesar...
i agree wif wad u n broinchrist have been sharing but tats cos i am christian also...i told tcmc b4 alredi tat if one doesnt put on the creationistic mind, one cannot understand how a creationistic religion establishes its teachings and doctrines....i tink he understands wad i mean...
to tcmc,
do u notice tat broinchrist , servant and i are going along the same line although he may nt have given tat many illustrations other than quoting from bible? i told u b4 tat creationists will agree almost the same things as other creationists of the same religion...
despondent,
I dont see what you are getting at. Of course christians will agree with christians. Then again you guys also disagree on many things regarding tongues, healings, megachurches etc etc.
So when you say christians agree with each other, half of it is true, half of it is not true.
-
Originally posted by Tcmc:
despondent,
I dont see what you are getting at. Of course christians will agree with christians. Then again you guys also disagree on many things regarding tongues, healings, megachurches etc etc.
So when you say christians agree with each other, half of it is true, half of it is not true.
Yes. The Bible Presbyterian does not support tongue speaking which is mentioned in the bible. -
ok...yes...there are fundamental doctrines and deeper doctrines...fundamental doctrines are like the doctrines concerning trinity, virgin birth, salvation by grace and nt gd works, jesus being son of God and also God etc...
doctrines on tongues, miracle healings, whether is pre,mid or post-tribulation are wad we call deeper doctrines which although are essential for christian growth and convictions are not considered vital to the destiny of the soul...eg, whether one speak in tongues or not wun determine if the person is saved...but nt believing in the trinity, virgin birth and jesus being God will affect one's destiny...hope u guys can see the difference...
so when i said christians generally go along the same line, i meant the impt fundamental doctrines...
-
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Tcmc,
1. The doctrine of the incarnation is clearly taught in the Bible. You can't see it because you aren't even looking. Again John 10 is crystal clear, Jesus' enemies said that they are stoning Him for claiming to be God. Which part of "We are stoning you for claiming to be God" do you not understand or is generic and vague?
2. Revelation in the Bible is progressive. Many Jews reject the OT because they failed to recognise Jesus as the Messiah. Yet many Jews have also believed upon Jesus as the Messiah. The deity of Jesus is fully proved from the Scriptures.
3. Red herring in that Hindu creation thingy. What do we do with red herrings? We ignore them. They are what they are, a distraction.
4. You failed to read properly. I said that many universities of note had Christian beginnings a few centuries ago. Had you been studying them you would not have called them pseudo-science. This is fact.
5. What would be arrogant would be someone saying that I should not be confident to speak of things of which he is ignorant of. You are so confident of there being no God, so why can't I be confident of there being a God. And moreover there are many scientists who believe in God, so please do not paint the wrong picture as if all scientists are atheists.
6. We are SURE that the universe has a beginning. And we are sure that the universe has a cause. While there are many scientists who refuse to think that God is the adequate cause of the universe, there are also many who have concluded that God is the best explanation. And you failed to produce any reason why belief in God is ridiculous. You mean your belief that the universe made itself is reasonable? Again the fact is that you are simply dismissing the Bible out of sheer prejudice and ignorance. Did you even ask why the Bible called bats as birds, or bothered to find out? I don't think you bothered to. Had you done the requisite research you would have found out the following:
"The Hebrew word for bird is actually owph which means “fowl/winged creature.” The word owph simply means “to fly” or “has a wing.” So, the word includes birds, bats, and even flying insects. The alleged problem appears due to translation of owp. The Hebrew word for bird is actually owph which means “fowl/winged creature.” The word owph simply means “to fly” or “has a wing.” So, the word includes birds, bats, and even flying insects. The alleged problem appears due to translation of owph as bird. Birds are included in the word owph, but owph is not limited to birds."
7. On the contrary, the Bible is pretty clear about the age of the earth such that prior to the rise of Darwinian evolution it was universally believed that the earth was not more than 6000 years old. It was the gradual chipping away at Biblical authority that led many Christians to depart from the plain sense meaning of the Bible.
8. Please don't presume things foolishly. Read the Bible, the charge of blasphemy was precisely because Jesus claimed to be God! Stick to what the text says OK?
9. Who are you to talk about me being open-minded about other religions when you are CLOSED to anything religious? You are just patronising other religions out there.
cmc,
1. You keep saying incarnation is CLEARLY taught in the bible.hahahaha. And you only showed me a very dubious and unclear verse that seems to SUGGEST remotely that jesus is “one with the father”. Secondly, I don’t know how you come to a conclusion that jesus is god because people wanted to stone him for being blasphemous. Its like saying I wanna execute you for being a murderer because you are innocent. You’re very very incoherent and you read too much into the text.
2. (You said Many Jews reject the OT because they failed to recognise Jesus as the Messiah) Sorry jews don’t reject the OT. They reject the NT. Those jews who believe jesus is a messiah are called Christian jews. I am talking about orthodox jews who believe only in the torah. To these jews, jesus was a false prophet. (You said The deity of Jesus is fully proved from the Scriptures). Lol sure you proved it with one verse that is so unclear and that needs so much inference.
3. I asked you about Hinduism creationism because it’s relevant. Stop brushing it aside. Come on, answer me. Tell me why is hInduism creationism not taught in schools? There must be legitimate reasons. Tell me.
4. Pseudo science is pseudo science. They are not accepted scholarly. Only churches and bible colleges teach pseudo sciences nowdays. Just like only madrasahs and muslim schools teach Islamic creationism.
5. I never did say all scientists are atheists. There are Christian scientists, just like there are hindu ones, muslim ones and atheist ones. I don’t deny that. I am just saying those who think they know what happened in the beginning because of a 4000 year old book containing talking snake and magic fruit are too confident.
6.(You said there are also many who have concluded that God is the best explanation). Ok may I know which are these sooo many scientists? (You mean your belief that the universe made itself is reasonable?) You keep saying I said the universe made itself. I didn’t say that for the whole of our convo. I keep telling you im not sure and that you’re the confident one. But then I am able to eliminate ridiculous reasons like ‘an invisible friend of mine did it”. I did not dismiss the bible because of prejudice. I dismiss it because of lack of empirical evidence proving the miracles, inability to reproduce the miracles in it, errors in the bible, inconsistencies in it. It is not because of prejudice.
Wow and you’re doing the explanation for the word “bird” for an all-knowing god. Ironic isn’t it? If he was real and did not want us to doubt, he would not have inspired such silly errors.
7. So you do believe the earth is 6000 years old or do you not? The bible doesn’t say anything about the age of the earth though. Again, it’s a very unclear book.
8. (Please don't presume things foolishly. Read the Bible, the charge of blasphemy was precisely because Jesus claimed to be God!) EXACTLY! People wanted to stone him because he blasphemed! NOT BECAUSE HE WAS GOD! Hahahahah. Where’s the link??? Hahaha. They convict him because of his crime, not because he was god literally!
9. You assume for me that I am patronizing other religions? I am open to other religions more than you, im quite sure of that. And I don’t mind visiting a temple, mosque or even a church. How about you? I wont even mind believing in some of the teachings in the quran or the skih scriptures. How about you? If you so “open
“, are you open enough to go to a temple and learn more about their teachings? -
Originally posted by despondent:
ok...yes...there are fundamental doctrines and deeper doctrines...fundamental doctrines are like the doctrines concerning trinity, virgin birth, salvation by grace and nt gd works, jesus being son of God and also God etc...
doctrines on tongues, miracle healings, whether is pre,mid or post-tribulation are wad we call deeper doctrines which although are essential for christian growth and convictions are not considered vital to the destiny of the soul...eg, whether one speak in tongues or not wun determine if the person is saved...but nt believing in the trinity, virgin birth and jesus being God will affect one's destiny...hope u guys can see the difference...
so when i said christians generally go along the same line, i meant the impt fundamental doctrines...
despondent,
you failed to read my previous posts.
christians ALSO disagree on trinity, salvation by grace, etc.
Some christians think other christians will end up in hell etc.
-
Ermmmm...its hard to talk or to have a meaningful discussion if one does not have an open mind....you'll be shouting at the top of your voices on what u believe, but that doesn't make it true (to all people)....maybe for you, Christianity works....congrats, but you must learn to hear other people's point of view too....
There are so many different types of food....some people like this, others like that....dun be too judgemental if they dun eat the same food as you do ?! We eat whatever that fills our belly....Hahaha!
-
tcmc,
who are u including in ur category ''christian''?
-
Originally posted by Tcmc:
cmc,
1. You keep saying incarnation is CLEARLY taught in the bible.hahahaha. And you only showed me a very dubious and unclear verse that seems to SUGGEST remotely that jesus is “one with the father”. Secondly, I don’t know how you come to a conclusion that jesus is god because people wanted to stone him for being blasphemous. Its like saying I wanna execute you for being a murderer because you are innocent. You’re very very incoherent and you read too much into the text.
2. (You said Many Jews reject the OT because they failed to recognise Jesus as the Messiah) Sorry jews don’t reject the OT. They reject the NT. Those jews who believe jesus is a messiah are called Christian jews. I am talking about orthodox jews who believe only in the torah. To these jews, jesus was a false prophet. (You said The deity of Jesus is fully proved from the Scriptures). Lol sure you proved it with one verse that is so unclear and that needs so much inference.
3. I asked you about Hinduism creationism because it’s relevant. Stop brushing it aside. Come on, answer me. Tell me why is hInduism creationism not taught in schools? There must be legitimate reasons. Tell me.
4. Pseudo science is pseudo science. They are not accepted scholarly. Only churches and bible colleges teach pseudo sciences nowdays. Just like only madrasahs and muslim schools teach Islamic creationism.
5. I never did say all scientists are atheists. There are Christian scientists, just like there are hindu ones, muslim ones and atheist ones. I don’t deny that. I am just saying those who think they know what happened in the beginning because of a 4000 year old book containing talking snake and magic fruit are too confident.
6.(You said there are also many who have concluded that God is the best explanation). Ok may I know which are these sooo many scientists? (You mean your belief that the universe made itself is reasonable?) You keep saying I said the universe made itself. I didn’t say that for the whole of our convo. I keep telling you im not sure and that you’re the confident one. But then I am able to eliminate ridiculous reasons like ‘an invisible friend of mine did it”. I did not dismiss the bible because of prejudice. I dismiss it because of lack of empirical evidence proving the miracles, inability to reproduce the miracles in it, errors in the bible, inconsistencies in it. It is not because of prejudice.
Wow and you’re doing the explanation for the word “bird” for an all-knowing god. Ironic isn’t it? If he was real and did not want us to doubt, he would not have inspired such silly errors.
7. So you do believe the earth is 6000 years old or do you not? The bible doesn’t say anything about the age of the earth though. Again, it’s a very unclear book.
8. (Please don't presume things foolishly. Read the Bible, the charge of blasphemy was precisely because Jesus claimed to be God!) EXACTLY! People wanted to stone him because he blasphemed! NOT BECAUSE HE WAS GOD! Hahahahah. Where’s the link??? Hahaha. They convict him because of his crime, not because he was god literally!
9. You assume for me that I am patronizing other religions? I am open to other religions more than you, im quite sure of that. And I don’t mind visiting a temple, mosque or even a church. How about you? I wont even mind believing in some of the teachings in the quran or the skih scriptures. How about you? If you so “open
“, are you open enough to go to a temple and learn more about their teachings?Tcmc,
1. Yes, indeed the doctrine of the incarnation is clearly taught. And the verse I showed you is crystal clear. You are just playing daft here.
2. Typo error re the point about Jews rejecting the OT, I meant NT.
3. Creationism is NOT taught in secular schools at all. So what's with the irrelevant point about Hindu creationism?
4. Creationism is labeled as pseudo-science, but if that is so, then evolutonism should also be labeled pseudo-science.
5. Since when is confidence in what the Bible says about origins something to be considered wrong? It is entirely reasonable to believe that God created the universe. We have a local scientist here by the name of Dr Aw Swee Eng, in the department of nuclear medicine at SGH. Go check him out.
6. Your dismissal of the Bible rests of spurious reasons. It is silly and absurd to expect Christians to reproduce miracles for you.
7. The point about owyh is that it is a limitation of Hebrew language and a matter of translation. There is nothing wrong with calling a bat a winged animal, is there?
8. Yes, I believe the earth is about 6000 years. You can add up the chronologies in the Bible and come to this conclusion as well. Else tell me how come prior to Darwin it was universally believed that the earth was 6000 years old?
9. Pray tell what was the content of Jesus' blasphemy for which the Jews wanted to stone Him? Hint: John 10:33
10. Are you open to other religions? Then you are clearly confused. As an atheist you should be saying that all religions are simply results of evolutionary processes, invented for survival purposes.