despondent,
Sure now you admit you were not clear enough and that your analogy isn;t complete and clear enough.
Thanks.
thers also the solid, liquid, gas analogy but tat only explains God having 3 different forms...the carbon dioxide analogy which explains CO2 being everywhere at the same time in order for there to be carbon dioxide...theres the bible being translated into 3 diff languages explaining the same bible having 3 diff functions(to the english speaking, mandarin speaking and tamil speaking)...
despondent,
Yes you are using "natural" existing things to compare the trinity concept but it does NOT prove the trinity concept.
Why?
To compare A with B, both A and B must exist.
And Exist means = Able to hear, able to see, able to measure, able to detect, able to feel, touch, able to experiment on.
For example, I can compare you and me. We can compare our height, weight, character. But I cannot compare you with a fairy, or a goblin because a fairy, though CLAIMED by people to exist, does not have supporting empirical evidence.
The trinity concept is just an idea, a concept, which has not been proven to exist.
simply cos God has nt been proven to exist? at least to non-creationists?
Yes I can compare my idea of a Magic teapot beyond this universe with an existing teapot in my kitchen.
I can tell you all the similarities. But does it mean my Magic teapot exists?
so to creationists, trinity exist cos to us, God exists?
which is why i said u must put on the creationist mindset b4 we can start any discussion...start off by ''assuming'' God exist...then take off from there...
Originally posted by despondent:simply cos God has nt been proven to exist? at least to non-creationists?
Yes, because there is no empirical evidence (no one has ever seen, heard, measured, detected, experiemented to prove that they exist) to support
1. the miracles in the bible
2. and the being of "God"
Therefore, for now, most atheists and agnostics believe that gods don't exist.
But IF one day empirical evidence surfaces, we will believe.
Originally posted by despondent:which is why i said u must put on the creationist mindset b4 we can start any discussion...start off by ''assuming'' God exist...then take off from there...
SO if you can anyhow "assume" somethign exists and start arguing from there, can i also anyhow "assume" that the Magic Teapot exists and I argue from there?
despondent,
I think it's very wrong to assume that "something" exists then we go and argue from there.
Then anything can be assumed without evidence. Oh I assume you killed that person then I argue. Oh I assume the Hindu God exists, then I argue. Oh I assume this magic teapot is real, then I argue. Oh I assume snow white is real, then I show you the book and argue.
going by ur analogy, yes...
tats why many christians left this forum cos we know tat having diff platforms does not anount to anything...most of the non-creationist simply refuse to engage the christians on the same platform...bear in mind tat tis is a christian forum so it shld be the non-christians engaging on the christian platform, nt the other way around...same for buddhists forum...i started a thread few yrs back asking qns abt buddhism, without creation in my mind...
then its also not rite to expect creationists to assume no-god and take off from there???
It doesnt have to amount to anything. We can discuss, see different views and then still be the same person as we are.
But the thing is you have not shown me much, honestly, as much as I wish you would have.
Trinity - You only used natural existing examples to compare. But you didnt prove it exists.
Miracles - Also didnt prove it exists.
Scripture generally unchanged - Yes you did show it somehow.
Christianity - You also have not shown me how Christianity is more true than other religions.
despondent,
If we use your METHOD OF "ASSUMING FIRST", then a lot of people will be wrongly convicted of murder and crimes
for mirclews, i am pretty sure theres no way...other than the belief tat the bible is indeed the Word of God, accurately translated and passed down from an original manuscript which is now lost and hence wadever miracles recorded in it is held to be true...tink domino effect...
maybe dun use the word assume...maybe shld say tink from creationist perspective tat God exist...is tat assuming? depends how u look at it...
despondent,
Why dont you believe in Allah and the Quran? Please dont say because they were later religions....Ok, we all know later, earlier, doesnt mean anything. A later religion can be good and better too.
But what other reasons?
my reason? nt necessarily accepted u, ok? cos this world revolves ard r/s and Allah doesnt desire r/s wif his followers...the emphasis of Islam is nt r/s but following Allah's teachings...plus i alredi explained b4 abt a relational God...did we become part of our parents' family by doing gd or juz cos we were born of them?
despondent
again you assume. You should really change your assume habit.
Have you read Quran verses? In the Quran, it says MANY TIMES that Allah desires for mankind to know him and to worship him, similar to the Christian God.
And [Tell Them That]
I Have Not Created The Invisible Beings And Men
To Any End Other Than That
They May [Know And] Worship Me.
[Quran Verse 56]
one more thing, creationists believe heaven belongs to God...so its the house of God...God owns it...Muslims will agree on this...nw to be accepted into his house, do u do gd works or is it by being his children? take note tat the things on earth are created by God so the principles of family, home, r/s and love are put in place by God...how do we get accepted into our parents' house and family? by doing gd? or by virtue of the fact tat we are their children???
but is salvation...or living in his house called heaven by the r/s or by doing gd??? as a creationist, i dun see consistency tat to get to heaven(house of creator) is by doing gd by to live wif our parents, its by parent-child r/s? u see my pt?
despondent,
I have already shown you previoulsy that there is a UNIQUE method in knowing the respective Gods in every religion.
For christianity, the unique method is to confess jesus is god, have a "relationship" and grace.
For islam, it is to confess allah is god and muhammed his messenger, to have a r/s with allah and to do good
For hinduism, it is to pray to the hindu gods, make sacrifices and do good
For sikhism, it is to obey the sikh scriptures, worship the Skih God and to know him
Just because your religion has a unique point doesnt mean other religions dont have unique points.
You understand?
i noe...but tats my reasonins...u asked for my reasoning, didnt u? the muslins can have their own set of reasonings...
You can fulfill your religion's unique point yes. But you cant fulfill the other religions' unique point too, just as other ppl from othe rreligions cannot fulfill your religion's unique point.
Understand?