can i suggest tat perhaps u see them as contradictions cos u are nt a creationist? creationists interprests and see things from God to man and nt man to God...its top-down compared to bottom up...
God is spirit, humans are flesh and blood...God can reproduce(if he wants without sexual intercourse cos spirit is without form)...humans need to go thru the physical method cos we are nt 100% spirit and we have a physical body...
1. Actually the verses that you gave to prove that jesus is god are not clear. When jesus says he is one with god, it doesn't mean he is god. Do you have any more CLEAR verses to show that jesus is god?
2. But you're the one using family to compare to god. Thats why i asked you how can you use a father,mother to compare with the trinity.
actually to me, the fact tat the bible says he is God the Son, is gd enuff alredi...the baptising part abt being baptised in the name of the father, son and holy spirit is another verse...a further info abt the family concept is like for eg the Tan family where u have Tan the father, Tan the son...Tan the son is the son of Tan the father...
Where does it say in the bible that Jesus is God?
Please show me.
Clear verses pelase. the one you gave me wasn't clear. That verse you gave me could mean something else.
then i cun help u further on this...an element of faith is needed for certain verses in th bible...nt everything is explkicit and 100% absolute...
despondent
THat means there are NO verses that are clear about jesus being god.
If the message about jesus being god is so important for salvation, why didnt god inspire his people to make it clear? Why be so mysterious? Why be so unclear?
to me very simple...''father'' and ''son'' means belong to same family...a family is one in terms of title(surname in human context) so father and son are both part of the Godhead...
cos without faith its impossible to please God? he wants us to have tat element of faith and nt rely 100% on evidence...n wad i presented to u, to me they are evidence but to u they are nt...so they are evidence but nt universally...if u have 100% evidence, do u call tat knowing or believing? wif 100% evidence, u know...wif an elemnt of faith, u know partially and the rest is based on believe(faith)...
despondent,
Your arguments are either weak, or very not convincing.
You keep using family , But in a famuily, the father and son are TWO separate different people.
So are you saying jesus and father are 2 separate ppl?
btw, wads evidence to u? evidence is either 0% or 100%? can there be 50% evidence? to me, evidence can be partial...no evidence would mean absolutely no verse tat even suggest any possiblity...but in this case, the possibility is there juz tat to u its nt clear...do u call this zero evidence?
hindus, islam, greek etc, all claim their god is one and only. so u mean there are so many gods out there lol, not to mention your god yahweh.
my thread was locked, continue here.
with so many paradoxes and inconsistencies, not to mention the irrationality and incoherence, do the pastors really believe what they are preaching?
ok so we are done wif the family part...i have explained the trinity b4 and said tat to fully explain it u need to combine several natural egs...
the family concept explains the trinity in terms of all 3 having the same title ''God''...nw i will explain why they are nt 2 separate persons...''separate'' suggests physicality...but remember God is spirit...the phrase ''2 separate persons'' suggests 2 separate beings...but God is spirit and he manifest himself into the human form as Jesus...
i am going to use an eg from tv...u noe the monkey god in journey to the west? he can manifest into many monkeys looking like himself but are they separate persons or the same? they are actually the same person....another word would be duplicate...
btw, u said my argument was weak...maybe but tats to u...when i shared them wif creationists, most said they were gd...the only explanation i can tink of is tat they have a creationistic mindset but u dun...tats all...
no I dun believe in a god and creationism right from the start.I have explained the origination of religion, how it came about already. its humans who invented god, not god. god is the invention of ancient mankind.
i was replying to tcmc...thank you...:)
Originally posted by despondent:ok so we are done wif the family part...i have explained the trinity b4 and said tat to fully explain it u need to combine several natural egs...
the family concept explains the trinity in terms of all 3 having the same title ''God''...nw i will explain why they are nt 2 separate persons...''separate'' suggests physicality...but remember God is spirit...the phrase ''2 separate persons'' suggests 2 separate beings...but God is spirit and he manifest himself into the human form as Jesus...
i am going to use an eg from tv...u noe the monkey god in journey to the west? he can manifest into many monkeys looking like himself but are they separate persons or the same? they are actually the same person....another word would be duplicate...
btw, u said my argument was weak...maybe but tats to u...when i shared them wif creationists, most said they were gd...the only explanation i can tink of is tat they have a creationistic mindset but u dun...tats all...
despondent,
1. You have NOT supported your trinity claims with ANY bible verses or any evidence, and yet you keep insisting the trinity is real. Isn't it blind faith? And I already told you that the family example you gave IS WRONG, because in a family a father and son are TWO SEPARATE PEOPLE, and yet you claim jesus and father are ONE god. How can you use the family example? It's wrong!
You can't even find ONE SINGLE verse that says that jesus is god in the bible and yet you keep insisting he is god, because you heard from your pastor or because other christians agree with you. Isnt' that blind faith? Where is your supporting evidence that jesus is god?
YOU MAKE A CLAIM, YOU MUST PROVE IT. Up to now you have NOT prove a single thing. Do you know what is proving and what is evidence?
And btw, monkey god is a legend/myth, and using it to compare with your god....just implies that your god is a legend/myth too...
despondent,
PLEASE read carefully. Do you know what is proving?
ok..so we leave it as me and my fellow creationistic frends are wrong to use family concept...tcmc is rite tat the family concept is wrong...evidence is determine by wad tcmc tinks is evidence...wad creationist see as evidence is nt counted...
u are taking wad i say literally...i am using it as an illustration...my goodness!!! see wad happens when 2 persons of diff platforms try to exchange pointers???
ok...then tell me wad father and son means? other than family...
despondent
Of course you are wrong for this point! You use 2 COMPLETELY different things to compare analogies.
You are like using an apple to compare it with a car and saying both are similar.
A family consists of a father, mother and son, and ALL 3 ARE DIFFERENT SEPARATE PEOPLE. The father and mother have sex with each other to reproduce a son.
The trinity, according to christians, consist of father, son and holyspirit (?) and all 3 are same one person. And do any of these reproduce each other? No.
So your analogy is completely illogical!
Of course you are wrong.
Sometimes, you can be wrong.
And sometimes I CAN BE WRONG.
But this time round, you are wrong,
u are looking at evidence in tat the illustrations or egs ppl give must 100% fit...so as long as there is a mismatch of any %, its a bad /weak/wrong illustration...
And no, I know sometimes I can be wrong.
But the thing is, despondent, you have not even USED YOUR OWN BIBLE to support the trinity claim.
How do you expectme to believe what you say?
Where did this trinity idea come from, if there'snot even a single verse that tells us that jesus is god?
Please think properly.