what happen to kong hee dishonesty case?
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sgdiehard, I realise something about you christians is you guys like to always go to the extremes. It's either YES OR NO or BLACK OR WHITE.
That is not realistic. Many things in this world are grey. And people can choose many kinds of middlegrounds. It doesnt always have to be as simple as YES OR NO.
Let's not be so simple minded.
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So let me get this right. There is no white or black. There is grey. And you guys can be in the middle ground. But religious people in particular Christians cannot take a middle ground or have a simple YES or NO. Is that what u are saying ? If its NO, then when Christians of different denominations some have a middleground on what they believe and not believe they are simple minded ? Is that what u mean ? If NO, Explain.
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No I am saying most christians I met always tend to believe in black and white only.
BUT I have met some christians who take middlegrounds too.
And I think that it's better to see the world in different colours rather than just black and white.
The world is too big and complicated to define it in RIGHT AND WRONG, or BLACK AND WHITE. There are many middlegrounds and grey areas.
This is what I am saying.
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*Bravo* But we are in Christian Forum. The premise being that we assume we believe in a God. Now if I am debating with about What is Right and Wrong. For example, Killing. You will go on and on about how Killing is grey because u can kill in some circumstances u cant in some.. yada yada yada. That is all good and all, but why cant it be black and white ? U can choose to Kill or Not Kill. If your principle demands you not to KILL, you don't need to kill. And if you are killed by not killing, well, you are a man of principle, or people will call you stupid. Grey are just excuses. You know what is a virtue right ? Virtues have no middleground. Back to Christianity - #1 Bible says that we should love and care and give to the needy. #2 Bible says too that we should not throw pearls at pigs. Black and White right there. But we decide to interpret a middle ground. Some circumstances should help.. some should not. Those that believe #1 , will always help. They will get used and abused in the process, but are u to say they are stupid and ignorant ? Those that believe #2 wont always help. You will then say that they are unbecoming of Christians Those that choose the middle ground : And will still get blamed for not being consistent when they are using thier own mind and ability to interpret. If you guys have alreayd understood it, why still making baseless attacks on Christianity as a whole ? It just means that you got intolerant, hateful, anti-Christians here. The purpose is just to attack attack attack even when thier attacks have been answered and explained. U get where I am getting at ?
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
No I am saying most christians I met always tend to believe in black and white only.
BUT I have met some christians who take middlegrounds too.
And I think that it's better to see the world in different colours rather than just black and white.
The world is too big and complicated to define it in RIGHT AND WRONG, or BLACK AND WHITE. There are many middlegrounds and grey areas.
This is what I am saying.
This is what you said: "I realise something about you christians is you guys like to always go to the extremes. It's either YES OR NO or BLACK OR WHITE."
you then changed and said "most christians I met always .." Don't twist!!
The world is not only BLACK AND WHITE, it is in fact very colorful, there are not only RIGHT AND WRONG, there are many things that are NICE AND BEAUTIFUL!! But there are also many who are confused. The world is still big enough to accommodate these kind of people, but don't make it complicated, learn to accept others.
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sgdiehard
I did not twist my words. I elaborated and explained what I meant. Yes thanks for agreeing with me that there are many grey areas and that life is not all just right or wrong. :)
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
sgdiehard
I did not twist my words. I elaborated and explained what I meant. Yes thanks for agreeing with me that there are many grey areas and that life is not all just right or wrong. :)
when you say the sun rises from the east, i say yes, i simply say that you know what is obvious, don't have to thank me.
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Please rename this thread as Jabberwocky.
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trolls vs trolls
how interesting
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Originally posted by laurence82:
trolls vs trolls
how interesting
he not your kind meh? hahaha...
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
winsomeea,
I think all megachurches teach prosperity. I dont agree with them personally but Im just telling some other christians not to judge them so quickly but instead try to understand other churches
Well, those christians who do not agree with the prosperity theory more or less share the same views as what some non christians think of it. Church is not a place for money making. Many of the mega churches are using the name of God to get in more money which is uncalled for.
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winsomeea
There are a few point of views (POV)
1st POV - Christians who agree that prosperity gospel is ok and that christians and churches have the right to prosper materially, spiritually. They quote bible verses to validate their teachings.
2nd POV - Christians who don't agree with prosperity gospel. They quote bible verses that christians/churches are not supposed to be rich. They discourage christians from attending megachurches.
3rd POV - Non-christians who think it's fine for megachurches to prosper since members give willingly.
4th POV - Non-christians who think it's not ok for megachurches to be so glamourous cos it's a charity.
You belong to 4th POV? I am in between 3rd and 4th POV.
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
winsomeea
There are a few point of views (POV)
1st POV - Christians who agree that prosperity gospel is ok and that christians and churches have the right to prosper materially, spiritually. They quote bible verses to validate their teachings.
2nd POV - Christians who don't agree with prosperity gospel. They quote bible verses that christians/churches are not supposed to be rich. They discourage christians from attending megachurches.
3rd POV - Non-christians who think it's fine for megachurches to prosper since members give willingly.
4th POV - Non-christians who think it's not ok for megachurches to be so glamourous cos it's a charity.
You belong to 4th POV? I am in between 3rd and 4th POV.
Go else where to make money not church, understand?
I have been to many churches including mega churches. Mega churches' leaders have to glib of the tongue to persuade more money for what crap. In the mega church like City Harvest, Kong Hee preached and asked them to sell their HDB flats and donate to church. Why the church people and not himself? He and wife own many private property why not sell them and donate to church why only the church christians>? He expect them to sell the HDB flat and where do they stay after that, stay in his apartments is it?
Crap, lah, don't need to justify to support the mega churches money making theory, I am strongly against it.
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winseomeea
But if the members give willingly, and they are willing to "obey" their pastors, who are we to go against them?
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
winseomeea
But if the members give willingly, and they are willing to "obey" their pastors, who are we to go against them?
who are you to ask who are we?
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sgdiehard,
Yet again, you are not serious in discussing. You give very "surface" answers. You havent even answered my queries and here you are shooting aimlessly.
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
winseomeea
But if the members give willingly, and they are willing to "obey" their pastors, who are we to go against them?
I don't agree but of course will not stop it from happening. Let's take a case like temple medium asking for donation and the willing ones give. Later found out that they misuse the fund to buy racing car. How would you feel? I am quoting this not on the Kong Hee's case only but in general.
I think you still don't get it that a church is for worshipping God . It is not a place for profit making, understand>? I am sure if you want to make money you will not go to mosque and ask for donation and use this money for your own.
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Originally posted by winsomeea:
I don't agree but of course will not stop it from happening. Let's take a case like temple medium asking for donation and the willing ones give. Later found out that they misuse the fund to buy racing car. How would you feel? I am quoting this not on the Kong Hee's case only but in general.
I think you still don't get it that a church is for worshipping God . It is not a place for profit making, understand>? I am sure if you want to make money you will not go to mosque and ask for donation and use this money for your own.
But their scriptures and God say it's ok to prosper?
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
But their scriptures and God say it's ok to prosper?
Yes, it is ok to prosper but not at the expense of the church. Church is a place for worship. Just like you don't go Istana to make money, do you?
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
he not your kind meh? hahaha...
yours, troll
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Originally posted by winsomeea:
Yes, it is ok to prosper but not at the expense of the church. Church is a place for worship. Just like you don't go Istana to make money, do you?
Church is a place for Worship, Megachurch is a place for Whoreshit (The Horse Face)
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
Church is a place for Worship, Megachurch is a place for Whoreshit (The Horse Face)
hahahahahah, true.
was told the girls there also sleep , dunno if sleep around or not which it seems I was told by a church member from a mega church.
Horse face was successful to get celebrities attend her church JJ Lin, think Vaness Wu also ever attended.
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
Church is a place for Worship, Megachurch is a place for Whoreshit (The Horse Face)
Haha good one!
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questions should be asked of the pastor and the church goers there.
was the pastor and his wife enriched and living off the donor's donation money? as money is involved, it must be transparent and accountable to the church goers. accounting must be established, as its account has millions of dollars. how much is the pastors drawing monthy salary?
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Hey everyone
Please don't just focus on megachurches. Actually many small churches in s'pore are also very rich and I know of many local pastors who live in condos and bungalows in s'pore.