what happen to kong hee dishonesty case?
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Tcmc,
From what I see, you ditched Christianity not because you knew enough, but because you lacked the proper foundation to handle objections to the faith. You show me any so-called error and I am sure there is always a good rebuttal. And BTW, the answer that "God works in mysterious ways" can be a valid answer to some questions, but I wouldn't bank on that as an answer to every question. If you can cut some slack for scientists who don't know everything, why can't you do the same for Christians? Double standards?
BroInChrist
I think I know best myself why i left the religion. Lol...You only spoke to me for two days and you claim to know why I left....
BroInChrist,
I used to rebut the "errors in the bible" like how you do it when I was a fundamentalist. I believed the earth was 6ooo years old and that the bible is perfect. I believed jesus was god and that atheists all hated god.
That was what I believed. I was like you.
So dont even for one second think that I wasnt a "real christian". lol. Just get a reality check dude.
There are exchristians just like there are exmuslims, exhindus, exbuddhists or even exatheists.
Accept the fact dude. Dont try to run away from the fact that there are exchristians.
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We left, fully convinced that the christian god is not possible. Dont worry. We are not secretly "hating your god". Like I mentioned earlier, I cant hate something that I know doesnt exist.
Its like how you cant hate snow white or superman.
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
BroInChrist
I think I know best myself why i left the religion. Lol...You only spoke to me for two days and you claim to know why I left....
BroInChrist,
I used to rebut the "errors in the bible" like how you do it when I was a fundamentalist. I believed the earth was 6ooo years old and that the bible is perfect. I believed jesus was god and that atheists all hated god.
That was what I believed. I was like you.
So dont even for one second think that I wasnt a "real christian". lol. Just get a reality check dude.
There are exchristians just like there are exmuslims, exhindus, exbuddhists or even exatheists.
Accept the fact dude. Dont try to run away from the fact that there are exchristians.
I think I know best myself why i left the religion. Lol...You only spoke to me for two days and you claim to know why I left....
That is judgemental of him. In the bible it tells christians not to judge, he judge, so hypocritical. He is a troublemaker.
If he does not show love as God wants him to.
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Originally posted by Rooney_07:
talking about pastors, do they believe what they are preaching?
You also asked this question in the locked topic, so let me respond here.
There's a very interesting study that was conducted by Daniel Dennett and Linda LaScola that interviewed pastors who had stopped believing:
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/Non-Believing-Clergy.pdf
I encourage you to at least scan through it. Here's a couple of excerpts, comprising quotes from a couple of these clergymen.
Darryl, the Presbyterian:
“I reject the virgin birth. I reject substitutionary atonement. I reject the divinity of
Jesus. I reject heaven and hell in the traditional sense, and I am not alone."
“I am a ‘Jesus Follower’ for sure. It is arguable whether I am also a ‘Christian.’
I can't imagine continuing in this work if I did not have a strong personal faith of
some kind. My cognitive dissonance revolves around the urge to rescue others
who find themselves in the same boat - and who still strongly believe in God in
some sense, and find Jesus a compelling religious figure.”Adam, Church of Christ:
“Probably one of the most mind-opening things was listening to all these debates
from top people of Christianity; or believers vs. non-believers. And I tried to do
the same thing: be open and listen, and use my mind and reason, I guess. And
almost undeniably, even being a believer and knowing the Christian claims and
scripture, you know what? This guy won in the debate. He’s a non-believer.
Why?”“I’m where I am because I need the job still. If I had an alternative, a comfortable
paying job, something I was interested in doing, and a move that wouldn’t destroy
my family, that’s where I’d go. Because I do feel kind of hypocritical." -
Originally posted by winsomeea:
I think I know best myself why i left the religion. Lol...You only spoke to me for two days and you claim to know why I left....
That is judgemental of him. In the bible it tells christians not to judge, he judge, so hypocritical. He is a troublemaker.
If he does not show love as God wants him to.
Just because someone believes the bible literally does not mean he is also spiritually enlightened. Book smart don't mean you are 'smart'.
You notice how you can go on and on on how Christians should behave while yous haters can exhibit none of the virtues. Notice the double standards? Dun mind me. I am just pointing it out.
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Originally posted by BadzMaro:
Just because someone believes the bible literally does not mean he is also spiritually enlightened. Book smart don't mean you are 'smart'.
You notice how you can go on and on on how Christians should behave while yous haters can exhibit none of the virtues. Notice the double standards? Dun mind me. I am just pointing it out.
BadzMaro
More is expected of christians because christians make big claims about how god helps them to be righteous and moral. So naturally we would scrutinise christians more cos of the bigger christians claims make.
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
BadzMaro
More is expected of christians because christians make big claims about how god helps them to be righteous and moral. So naturally we would scrutinise christians more cos of the bigger christians claims make.
So you mean we should expect non-Christians to be more immoral and liable to do bad things?
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Originally posted by Servant:
So you mean we should expect non-Christians to be more immoral and liable to do bad things?
Servant,
Of course not. Did I say that? Non-christians, non-hindus or non-religious people can be good people too. :) Just that if you make big promises or big claims, then more is expected of you.
Don't you think so?
You make big claims, then make sure you prove it
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
Servant,
Of course not. Did I say that? Non-christians, non-hindus or non-religious people can be good people too. :) Just that if you make big promises or big claims, then more is expected of you.
Don't you think so?
You make big claims, then make sure you prove it
So according to you, people should take your point, but hey, the reverse is not true.
I think this is a classic example, amongst others, why some here (myself included) do not find you sincere about engaging in meaningful dialogue, so you can drop your tired facade about being 'open' and 'wanting to learn more'.
And you go on and on about Christians having to 'prove claims' when you have been utterly silent on the article that I previously posted showing the historical authencity of the Bible based on documented scientific and archeological evidence.
The irony of ironies, sigh
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Originally posted by Servant:
So according to you, people should take your point, but hey, the reverse is not true.
I think this is a classic example, amongst others, why some here (myself included) do not find you sincere about engaging in meaningful dialogue, so you can drop your tired facade about being 'open' and 'wanting to learn more'.
And you go on and on about Christians having to 'prove claims' when you have been utterly silent on the article that I previously posted showing the historical authencity of the Bible based on documented scientific and archeological evidence.
The irony of ironies, sigh
I just saw your previous post on the other topic. Just answered it. Do respond.
Just admit it.
You make big claims, you prove it.
Then dont make big claims and shun responsibility!
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
I just saw your previous post on the other topic. Just answered it. Do respond.
Just admit it.
You make big claims, you prove it.
Then dont make big claims and shun responsibility!
By being so stubborn about this, I don't know if you've realised that you've lost almost all credibility and that you have unknowingly helped to reaffirm the origins and beauty of Christianity. I never really understood the flaws of Atheism, but I think I do now.
Thank you
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Originally posted by Servant:
By being so stubborn about this, I don't know if you've realised that you've lost almost all credibility and that you have unknowingly helped to reaffirm the origins and beauty of Christianity. I never really understood the flaws of Atheism, but I think I do now.
Thank you
1. You are the one being stubborn about this. I have made it clear that non-christians are also supposed to be good people. Yes I am supposed to be a good person too.
2. But if christians make bigger claims about how their god can make them righteous and good, then of course they have to prove it with bigger actions. Look at mother theresa and buddhist monks who sincerely help people. They made big claims about their gods, they show it with big actions. Now what is so wrong about my statement?
You are just being stubborn and prideful.
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Servant
What exactly is wrong with my statement, please highlight to me?
I am saying if a person makes a bigger claim, he has to show it with bigger actions?
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
BroInChrist
I think I know best myself why i left the religion. Lol...You only spoke to me for two days and you claim to know why I left....
BroInChrist,
I used to rebut the "errors in the bible" like how you do it when I was a fundamentalist. I believed the earth was 6ooo years old and that the bible is perfect. I believed jesus was god and that atheists all hated god.
That was what I believed. I was like you.
So dont even for one second think that I wasnt a "real christian". lol. Just get a reality check dude.
There are exchristians just like there are exmuslims, exhindus, exbuddhists or even exatheists.
Accept the fact dude. Dont try to run away from the fact that there are exchristians.
Tcmc,
1. I think you have bragged enough about why you left the faith. Yes, I only interacted with you for two days, but along with reading your past postings, I think any reasonable person can tell why you choose to abandon the faith.
2. By trying to say you were like me, it seems that you are playing the sympathy game here. Well, sorry to say, I don't think you were like me. You may claim to believe the things I stand for, but I have good reason to think that you are again patronising me. It does not seem to me evident that you were capable of defending those beliefs, seeing how your objections are old canards and so easily refuted, and how you show little knowledge of the Bible. Were you a real Christian? Well, I don't read minds. God will be the judge of that. But I can tell you that my interaction with you so far does not incline me to agree with your self-assessment of your past. Perhaps you were genuine and sincere, I can grant that, but certainly you were not equipped to handle the usual garden-variety kind of objections to the faith often employed by the village atheists.
3. Are there ex-Christians? What does the Bible say? The apostle John wrote about such people, and said that such people were never really with Christ. If they were, then they would have stayed on. 1 John 2:18 says "Children, it is the last hour, and just as you heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. We know from this that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us, because if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But they went out from us to demonstrate that all of them do not belong to us."
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Tcmc,
1. I think you have bragged enough about why you left the faith. Yes, I only interacted with you for two days, but along with reading your past postings, I think any reasonable person can tell why you choose to abandon the faith.
2. By trying to say you were like me, it seems that you are playing the sympathy game here. Well, sorry to say, I don't think you were like me. You may claim to believe the things I stand for, but I have good reason to think that you are again patronising me. It does not seem to me evident that you were capable of defending those beliefs, seeing how your objections are old canards and so easily refuted, and how you show little knowledge of the Bible. Were you a real Christian? Well, I don't read minds. God will be the judge of that. But I can tell you that my interaction with you so far does not incline me to agree with your self-assessment of your past. Perhaps you were genuine and sincere, I can grant that, but certainly you were not equipped to handle the usual garden-variety kind of objections to the faith often employed by the village atheists.
3. Are there ex-Christians? What does the Bible say? The apostle John wrote about such people, and said that such people were never really with Christ. If they were, then they would have stayed on. 1 John 2:18 says "Children, it is the last hour, and just as you heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. We know from this that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us, because if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But they went out from us to demonstrate that all of them do not belong to us."
1. Oh so i left the religion because of the reasons you said and not because of my own reasons? GREAT! You're a psychic! You know me better than I do
2. Pretty sure i was like you - YEC, bible literalist, conservative, atheist-hater, self-righteous, prideful yet failing to see it, simple-minded
3. Quoting the bible when you havent proved anything in it means nothing. Will you feel convicted if i quote you islamic or hindu scriptures without proving its contents to you?
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
1. Oh so i left the religion because of the reasons you said and not because of my own reasons? GREAT! You're a psychic! You know me better than I do
2. Pretty sure i was like you - YEC, bible literalist, conservative, atheist-hater, self-righteous, prideful yet failing to see it, simple-minded
3. Quoting the bible when you havent proved anything in it means nothing. Will you feel convicted if i quote you islamic or hindu scriptures without proving its contents to you?
Tcmc,
You failed to read properly that I formed my conclusions based on what YOU wrote. In any case, few are already calling you a troll here and I am inclined to agree with them.
Yes, it is likely true that you were an atheist-hater, self-righteous, prideful, simple minded. But I think little of that has changed, except the target group of hatred. I am pretty sure I am not like you though. The thing is, atheists like to drop labels like that on Christians whenever they find that they aren't doing well defending their atheistic worldviews. It's a guilt trip tactic used to save face.
I think you should stop patronising religions here. My quoting the Bible is to expose your shallow claim that you are somehow a jaded Christian who has been deep in the faith and knows a lot. I think it is clear that you know little about the faith. You did not leave the faith because you knew too much. You left because your roots were not deep and you were blown about and tossed about by every wind of human philosophy.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Tcmc,
You failed to read properly that I formed my conclusions based on what YOU wrote. In any case, few are already calling you a troll here and I am inclined to agree with them.
Yes, it is likely true that you were an atheist-hater, self-righteous, prideful, simple minded. But I think little of that has changed, except the target group of hatred. I am pretty sure I am not like you though. The thing is, atheists like to drop labels like that on Christians whenever they find that they aren't doing well defending their atheistic worldviews. It's a guilt trip tactic used to save face.
I think you should stop patronising religions here. My quoting the Bible is to expose your shallow claim that you are somehow a jaded Christian who has been deep in the faith and knows a lot. I think it is clear that you know little about the faith. You did not leave the faith because you knew too much. You left because your roots were not deep and you were blown about and tossed about by every wind of human philosophy.
BIC,
1. Yes so you conclude based on what YOU THINK you see in me. Afterall, you think you know me best. I am so touched. Yes I need to use sarcasm on silly people like you.
2. Nah. I see myself in you 5 years ago. I was like you. I was so into the whole christian thing, bible literalist, conservative, YEC. Maybe even worse than you. But I plucked up courage to really study the bible and other religions OBJECTIVELY. Being objective is something you lack. Try studying it from a neutral POV. Some christians have done that and become more tolerant.
3. You quote me a bible verse to "prove" to me that Iwas not really a christian. You havent answered my question. Will you feel convicted if I quote you islamic or hindu scriptures without proving its contents to you?
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
BIC,
1. Yes so you conclude based on what YOU THINK you see in me. Afterall, you think you know me best. I am so touched. Yes I need to use sarcasm on silly people like you.
2. Nah. I see myself in you 5 years ago. I was like you. I was so into the whole christian thing, bible literalist, conservative, YEC. Maybe even worse than you. But I plucked up courage to really study the bible and other religions OBJECTIVELY. Being objective is something you lack. Try studying it from a neutral POV. Some christians have done that and become more tolerant.
3. You quote me a bible verse to "prove" to me that Iwas not really a christian. You havent answered my question. Will you feel convicted if I quote you islamic or hindu scriptures without proving its contents to you?
Tcmc,
1. I said it before and I said it again. I base my assessment on what you wrote here. I never said I know you best. But surely you have written enough for any reasonable person to form an opinion.
2. It is probably true that 5 years ago you were worse than me. Remember you said you were an atheist-hater, self-righteous, prideful, simple minded? I don't see myself as that. Have you really studied the Bible objectively? How come it doesn't show in your posts? And what is a neutral POV? That there is no God, no miracles, etc etc? That is your idea of neutral POV?
3. Yes, I quoted a Bible verse to show you that as far as the Bible is concerned, those who left the faith never belonged to it in the first place. I did not invent this verse, it's there for you to read. You mean in your study of the Bible you never come across this verse? And please don't hide behind other religions. You don't have to prove the contents of their Scriptures to me, you just need to tell me what they said. Likewise I do not have to prove the Bible to you (since you have already set your mind not to be convinced at all) but to tell you what it says concerning this or not.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Tcmc,
1. I said it before and I said it again. I base my assessment on what you wrote here. I never said I know you best. But surely you have written enough for any reasonable person to form an opinion.
2. It is probably true that 5 years ago you were worse than me. Remember you said you were an atheist-hater, self-righteous, prideful, simple minded? I don't see myself as that. Have you really studied the Bible objectively? How come it doesn't show in your posts? And what is a neutral POV? That there is no God, no miracles, etc etc? That is your idea of neutral POV?
3. Yes, I quoted a Bible verse to show you that as far as the Bible is concerned, those who left the faith never belonged to it in the first place. I did not invent this verse, it's there for you to read. You mean in your study of the Bible you never come across this verse? And please don't hide behind other religions. You don't have to prove the contents of their Scriptures to me, you just need to tell me what they said. Likewise I do not have to prove the Bible to you (since you have already set your mind not to be convinced at all) but to tell you what it says concerning this or not.
BIC
1. End of discussion. You think you know me better than I do. You're too prideful and on a monologue.
2. You say "I don't see myself as that". LOL. Of course no one sees their flaws in the very beginning. Why would you admit that you're self-righteous, prideful and simple minded? Yes you're right! I did study the bible neutrally and objectively and came to a conclusion that it doesnt make sense for me. Did you try to study it from a neutral POV from the begining? Did you even try? Please answer if you have ever tried to study the bible from a neutral POV and not a christian POV. Dont skip the question and do a monologue.
3. You are again on a monologue. Please answer my question. i always respond to your queries but you want to be on a monologue. "You quote me a bible verse to "prove" to me that Iwas not really a christian. You havent answered my question. Will you feel convicted if I quote you islamic or hindu scriptures without proving its contents to you?:" Please answer, and thank you
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
BIC
1. End of discussion. You think you know me better than I do. You're too prideful and on a monologue.
2. You say "I don't see myself as that". LOL. Of course no one sees their flaws in the very beginning. Why would you admit that you're self-righteous, prideful and simple minded? Yes you're right! I did study the bible neutrally and objectively and came to a conclusion that it doesnt make sense for me. Did you try to study it from a neutral POV from the begining? Did you even try? Please answer if you have ever tried to study the bible from a neutral POV and not a christian POV. Dont skip the question and do a monologue.
3. You are again on a monologue. Please answer my question. i always respond to your queries but you want to be on a monologue. "You quote me a bible verse to "prove" to me that Iwas not really a christian. You havent answered my question. Will you feel convicted if I quote you islamic or hindu scriptures without proving its contents to you?:" Please answer, and thank you
Tcmc,
1. I already said that you have posted a lot of things here. Anyone can form an assessment of you from what you wrote, just like how you formed your assessment of me.
2. I am a sinner saved by grace. The righteousness I have is not my own, but Christ's. I am mindful not to be simple-minded, but try to be Christ-minded in thinking. I am not perfect but I see no need to admit that I am like you if I don't think I am. You clearly think that you are now no more like what you were before, you now put yourself on some high moral pedestal and insist on saying that I am like what you were.
3. Again you have FAILED to define what a neutral POV is. I said it before, there is no such thing as a neutral POV. An atheist who attempts to study the Bible is already biased from the start. So is a Christian. What is required is to read widely and be aware of both sides. I am a sucker for books, and believe me when I tell you that I even read the works of my "enemies" to know how they think and what they think.
4. And I have answered many of your questions. It's not me going on a monologue, rather you are just going "la la la" at what I said. The issue is not whether I am convicted by what a sacred book says, but whether did the sacred book say this or not. I don't give a hoot if you think the Bible does not convict you. I can't make the Bible convict you. But I can pretty well tell you what the Bible says about you. You don't feel any sense of conviction also not my problem. God will do the work of convicting you, not me. I just need to tell you what He has said.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Tcmc,
1. I already said that you have posted a lot of things here. Anyone can form an assessment of you from what you wrote, just like how you formed your assessment of me.
2. I am a sinner saved by grace. The righteousness I have is not my own, but Christ's. I am mindful not to be simple-minded, but try to be Christ-minded in thinking. I am not perfect but I see no need to admit that I am like you if I don't think I am. You clearly think that you are now no more like what you were before, you now put yourself on some high moral pedestal and insist on saying that I am like what you were.
3. Again you have FAILED to define what a neutral POV is. I said it before, there is no such thing as a neutral POV. An atheist who attempts to study the Bible is already biased from the start. So is a Christian. What is required is to read widely and be aware of both sides. I am a sucker for books, and believe me when I tell you that I even read the works of my "enemies" to know how they think and what they think.
4. And I have answered many of your questions. It's not me going on a monologue, rather you are just going "la la la" at what I said. The issue is not whether I am convicted by what a sacred book says, but whether did the sacred book say this or not. I don't give a hoot if you think the Bible does not convict you. I can't make the Bible convict you. But I can pretty well tell you what the Bible says about you. You don't feel any sense of conviction also not my problem. God will do the work of convicting you, not me. I just need to tell you what He has said.
BIC
1. My assessment of you might not be true, just as your assessment of me might not be true. Right? (Or maybe you would still insist you're right)
2. " I am a sinner saved by grace. The righteousness I have is not my own, but Christ's. I am mindful not to be simple-minded, but try to be Christ-minded in thinking. I am not perfect but I see no need to admit that I am like you if I don't think I am. You clearly think that you are now no more like what you were before, you now put yourself on some high moral pedestal and insist on saying that I am like what you were." ----> This whole statement reeks of self-righteousness. It's all about me, me and my friend in heaven.
3. Ok let me tell you what happened. When I was STILL a christian, I forced myself to adopt a neutral POV to study the bible, not from an atheist POV or a christian POV. Just study the book like I would study a any other book for an exams by comparing, reading without bias, researching and concluding. Can you step out of your christian POV now and try to study it neutrally? THats my question. I did it when I was a christian. I stepped out of my christian POV to study it. Can you or can you not?
4. Again, you fail to answer my question. Saying "the issue is not whether i am convicted by what a sacred book says", doesnt answer my queston at all. You're just trying to distract. Answer me, you quoted a religious text of which you did not prove and it did not convict me. So now I am asking you if I quote an islamic or hindu text to you without proving it, would you be convicted? Yes or No?
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BIC
Got any response for my last reply?
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
BIC
1. My assessment of you might not be true, just as your assessment of me might not be true. Right? (Or maybe you would still insist you're right)
2. " I am a sinner saved by grace. The righteousness I have is not my own, but Christ's. I am mindful not to be simple-minded, but try to be Christ-minded in thinking. I am not perfect but I see no need to admit that I am like you if I don't think I am. You clearly think that you are now no more like what you were before, you now put yourself on some high moral pedestal and insist on saying that I am like what you were." ----> This whole statement reeks of self-righteousness. It's all about me, me and my friend in heaven.
3. Ok let me tell you what happened. When I was STILL a christian, I forced myself to adopt a neutral POV to study the bible, not from an atheist POV or a christian POV. Just study the book like I would study a any other book for an exams by comparing, reading without bias, researching and concluding. Can you step out of your christian POV now and try to study it neutrally? THats my question. I did it when I was a christian. I stepped out of my christian POV to study it. Can you or can you not?
4. Again, you fail to answer my question. Saying "the issue is not whether i am convicted by what a sacred book says", doesnt answer my queston at all. You're just trying to distract. Answer me, you quoted a religious text of which you did not prove and it did not convict me. So now I am asking you if I quote an islamic or hindu text to you without proving it, would you be convicted? Yes or No?
Tcmc,
1. I stand by earlier assessment of you. I think there are others who would agree with me too. Let's leave it at that if you insist on disagreeing with that.
2. You said I was just like you 5 years ago, which means to imply that now you are above being self-righteous etc etc. How is that not being self-righteous also? You are talking down at me while putting yourself on some high moral ground.
3. Until now you still have not articulate to me what in the world is a neutral POV. What does it entail? I have spent time studying the Word of God. The Word of God must be approached on its own terms. If you reject the presuppositions of the Bible, then you are not approaching the way it is meant to be, and it is no surprise that you would FAIL to understand it. How can you claim to understand it when you failed to put yourself in its shoes? You don't tell someone that you understand him when you don't even bother to try to see things from his point of view.
4. I see no point in answering your question because it is IRRELEVANT, don't you get it? Why should I answer irrelevant questions? The issue is what the text says, not whether you are convicted of it or not. The Bible says that if you left the faith then you never belong to it in the first place. The Bible either says this or it does not. Whether you feel impacted by it or not is IRRELEVANT.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Tcmc,
1. I stand by earlier assessment of you. I think there are others who would agree with me too. Let's leave it at that if you insist on disagreeing with that.
2. You said I was just like you 5 years ago, which means to imply that now you are above being self-righteous etc etc. How is that not being self-righteous also? You are talking down at me while putting yourself on some high moral ground.
3. Until now you still have not articulate to me what in the world is a neutral POV. What does it entail? I have spent time studying the Word of God. The Word of God must be approached on its own terms. If you reject the presuppositions of the Bible, then you are not approaching the way it is meant to be, and it is no surprise that you would FAIL to understand it. How can you claim to understand it when you failed to put yourself in its shoes? You don't tell someone that you understand him when you don't even bother to try to see things from his point of view.
4. I see no point in answering your question because it is IRRELEVANT, don't you get it? Why should I answer irrelevant questions? The issue is what the text says, not whether you are convicted of it or not. The Bible says that if you left the faith then you never belong to it in the first place. The Bible either says this or it does not. Whether you feel impacted by it or not is IRRELEVANT.
BIC
1 and 2, no point arguing with you. You just dont want to be objective.
3. i have already shown you how I did it. When I was a christian, I STEPPED OUT of my christian POV to study the bible as neutrally as possible. I took away my christian beliefs (for the studying period) and read the bible like I would read the hindu scriptures, quran or any history book. This is the neutral POV I am talking about. To step OUT of your christian POV and to study it for maybe 2 weeks. Can you do it?
BTW, if you tell me to step out of my atheist POV to go to church and "experience god" again, I would for a few weeks, just to study it objectively. So can you step out of your christian POV for 2 weeks?
4. You dont wanna answer my question and you insist that I answer your questions. Great. End of point 4 you win for point 4!
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
BIC
1 and 2, no point arguing with you. You just dont want to be objective.
3. i have already shown you how I did it. When I was a christian, I STEPPED OUT of my christian POV to study the bible as neutrally as possible. I took away my christian beliefs (for the studying period) and read the bible like I would read the hindu scriptures, quran or any history book. This is the neutral POV I am talking about. To step OUT of your christian POV and to study it for maybe 2 weeks. Can you do it?
BTW, if you tell me to step out of my atheist POV to go to church and "experience god" again, I would for a few weeks, just to study it objectively. So can you step out of your christian POV for 2 weeks?
4. You dont wanna answer my question and you insist that I answer your questions. Great. End of point 4 you win for point 4!
Tcmc,
1. Now you are engaging in ad hominem attack.
2. You failed to understand that you cannot understand the Bible by refusing to adopt the worldview of the Bible. Your so-called neutral POV is impossible. You are deluding yourself.
3. Dude, if I ask you to attend a church service, I will not ask you to set aside who you are or cast away your atheism. Do you stop being an atheist when you step inside a church building?