Reasons why I have reservations about Christianity
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#1 :
I have some Christian friends from charismatic churches who totally condemn traditional chruches. And then I have some aunties from traditional churches who totally condemn charismatic churches, even calling them blesphemious for their style of worship. Then some of my other friends from charismatic churches defended their style of worship by quoting some verse in the bible that says god does not mind any form of music for worship. So who's more holy here?
#2 :
And so the Christians have the bible. And then the Mormons have their own as well. Then the Jehova Witnesses add on new pages to the Christian bible and claim that they now have new revelations that the 'outdated' Christians don't have. And then one day I pass by a church near Changi Village which 'advertised' the Aragatha bible on it's banner. So now whose bible is real and whose is fake? They all seem to have proof that theirs is genuine and others' are fake.
#3 :
So what's which Catholics? Why do Christians worship god through Jesus and yet Catholics do so through mother Mary? Christians do not recognise worship through mother Mary cos they say that the bible says that worship is only received through Jesus. And I'm sure the Catholics have their own ways to defend their cause as well. So who do we really have to worship through?
So now how do you dudes expect to convince others about your religion if you all seem such a confused bunch yourselves? How to convince others when you are 'fighting' among yourselves?
oh and there's #4 :
If all else who do not believe in God through Jesus go to hell... please let me go round killing everybody and then convert to Christianity on the electic chair...
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Religion is man made. Jesus never call himself a christian. Buddha never call himself a buddhist.
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well said!
Jesus even attacked religion via the pharisees .. lol -
Touche!!!!
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You have reservations about Christianity or Christians?Originally posted by edemonda:#1 :
I have some Christian friends from charismatic churches who totally condemn traditional chruches. And then I have some aunties from traditional churches who totally condemn charismatic churches, even calling them blesphemious for their style of worship. Then some of my other friends from charismatic churches defended their style of worship by quoting some verse in the bible that says god does not mind any form of music for worship. So who's more holy here?
And so the Christians have the bible. And then the Mormons have their own as well. Then the Jehova Witnesses add on new pages to the Christian bible and claim that they now have new revelations that the 'outdated' Christians don't have. And then one day I pass by a church near Changi Village which 'advertised' the Aragatha bible on it's banner. So now whose bible is real and whose is fake? They all seem to have proof that theirs is genuine and others' are fake.
One basic principle of biblical hermeneutic is Scripture interpret Scripture. Everyone will have a biblical framework, you need to see whether your framework fits in the grand scheme of things. That's why biblical study is important. Try to think and debate with friends. Challenge them a new point of view. Don't just accept what your pastor says.So what's which Catholics? Why do Christians worship god through Jesus and yet Catholics do so through mother Mary? Christians do not recognise worship through mother Mary cos they say that the bible says that worship is only received through Jesus. And I'm sure the Catholics have their own ways to defend their cause as well. So who do we really have to worship through?
Catholics also worship God what, and not through Mary.
I heard my Catholic friend say (maybe I heard wrongly) Protestants are allowed to partake in Catholic eucharist also. Can someone confirm. Not sure whether Catholics are allowed to do so in Protestant churches.So now how do you dudes expect to convince others about your religion if you all seem such a confused bunch yourselves? How to convince others when you are 'fighting' among yourselves?
It can be argued that issues like Pastor Ho's dressing style and rock music are not esssential beliefs for salvation. The same for whether the worship is conducted in a titanium building or padi field.If all else who do not believe in God through Jesus go to hell... please let me go round killing everybody and then convert to Christianity on the electic chair...
The simple answer is -you are not the elected, so ultimately you won't be saved. I know this is cheam, but go read up on total depravity, limited atonement and irresistable grace.
If you understand God's sovereignity and the 3 doctrines mentioned, you won't have a problem with the "Hitler last minute confession" scenario. -
Originally posted by edemonda:#1 :
You have reservations about Christianity or Christians? One basic principle of biblical hermeneutic is Scripture interpret Scripture. Everyone will have a biblical framework, you need to see whether your framework fits in the grand scheme of things. That's why biblical study is important. Try to think and debate with friends. Challenge them a new point of view. Don't just accept what your pastor says..
Catholics also worship God what, and not through Mary.
I heard my Catholic friend say (maybe I heard wrongly) Protestants are allowed to partake in Catholic eucharist also. Can someone confirm. Not sure whether Catholics are allowed to do so in Protestant churches.It can be argued that issues like Pastor Ho's dressing style and rock music are not esssential beliefs for salvation. The same for whether the worship is conducted in a titanium building or padi field.
The simple answer is -you are not the elected, so ultimately you won't be saved. I know this is cheam, but go read up on total depravity, limited atonement and irresistable grace.
I realise that you didn't release his doubts at all.
If you understand God's sovereignity and the 3 doctrines mentioned, you won't have a problem with the "Hitler last minute confession" scenario.
But that's ok. Good sharing attempt. -
No, Protestants may not partake in the recieving of the Eucharist.Originally posted by Icemoon:I heard my Catholic friend say (maybe I heard wrongly) Protestants are allowed to partake in Catholic eucharist also. Can someone confirm. Not sure whether Catholics are allowed to do so in Protestant churches.
To recieve the Eucharist, one must fufill the following conditions
1) One must believe that the Eucharist IS the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.
2) One must believe that when the Priest says the words of consecration, the bread and wine turn into the Body and Blood of Jesus in forms of bread and wine.
3) Be in a state of grace, have made a good confession since your last mortal sin.
4) Observe the Eucharistic fast, and, finally,
5) not be under an ecclesiastical censure such as excommunication.
Of which most of them cannot fufill, regretably.
The Sacrament of the Eucharist is a Sacrament of Unity. Scripture is clear that partaking of the Eucharist is among the highest signs of Christian unity: "Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread" (1 Cor. 10:17). For this reason, it is normally impossible for non-Catholic Christians to receive Holy Communion, for to do so would be to proclaim a unity to exist that, regrettably, does not.
Another reason that many non-Catholics may not ordinarily receive Communion is for their own protection, since many reject the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Scripture warns that it is very dangerous for one not believing in the Real Presence to receive Communion: "For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died" (1 Cor. 11:29–30). -
Originally posted by M©+square:I realise that you didn't release his doubts at all.
But that's ok. Good sharing attempt.
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Thanks for the correction.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:No, Protestants may not partake in the recieving of the Eucharist.
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pai seh. busy makaning.. so.. ill juz reply this one.Originally posted by edemonda:oh and there's #4 :
If all else who do not believe in God through Jesus go to hell... please let me go round killing everybody and then convert to Christianity on the electic chair...
the primal temptation is the easiness of salvation to humanity. (which i think is one of the reaons why lucifer was so pissed off. lol.)
but repentence ain't that easy - gesture of repentance, saying sorry ain't gonna work. being sorry will work. so that is up to God to decide.
so if u gonna kill everyone knowing dat u will be forgiven, it will be hard for u to repent after that. and when judgement day comes, there wld probably be someone as the role of the accurser to screw u upside down. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
Why you cry? hEh. -
Originally posted by edemonda:
Catholics call themselves Christians. They are essentially Christians. The assumption of them not believing in Jesus and through Mother Mary is more of an urban legend.
#3 :
So what's which Catholics? Why do Christians worship god through Jesus and yet Catholics do so through mother Mary? Christians do not recognise worship through mother Mary cos they say that the bible says that worship is only received through Jesus. And I'm sure the Catholics have their own ways to defend their cause as well. So who do we really have to worship through?
So now how do you dudes expect to convince others about your religion if you all seem such a confused bunch yourselves? How to convince others when you are 'fighting' among yourselves?
I'm a protestant, and I know that.
As far as Christians are concerned, ONLY and ONLY and ONLY through Jesus can you reach God. And for your convenience, God and Holy Spirit can used interchangably with Jesus. nah, not really, because they are one.
But you are right on something, its a big bloody bloody mess. Read on the Ireland conflict regarding Protestants and Catholics. They were practically KILLING one another.
These are however, man-made conflicts. I think Pastor Kong said this around few hundred times, ".. we are living in a broken world, that is why bad things happen to good people." Thats one of the bad things, interconflict.
But its better now, much better. the Catholic church and most Protestant churches are making up. The Catholic have even made up with the Jews, and thats old news.
Its the newer churches that refuse to abide by this stability in search for their own grounds. Mostly charismatic churches, I'm not saying they are wrong - I am in one for crying out loud, they may be correct for all we know - its how things can get messy and you have to accept it as such.
Believe it or not, even Hinduism has their own sects and such. Its the same everywhere, thats why this is a broken world, a fallen world, etc etc. If things are so dandy and nice, and whole Christianity is in one voice, and one mind..
The world is gonna end, quite soon.
And no, I'm not gonna convince you, my role is to tell you what I think and what I believe are true and real. That include those secterian conflicts between Churches. They are real, but the reaons behind should also be understood.
Don't jump in without looking, even if its salvation, look, think, feel before embracing, and continue to learn and understand God. If you can do that, than you will be a strong and firm believer. -
Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:
The Holy Communion is practiced in my Church. Does that consider?
Another reason that many non-Catholics may not ordinarily receive Communion is for their own protection, since many reject the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Scripture warns that it is very dangerous for one not believing in the Real Presence to receive Communion: "For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died" (1 Cor. 11:29–30). -
I find both sides funny, I'll get back to you when I reach heaven.Originally posted by edemonda:#1 :
I have some Christian friends from charismatic churches who totally condemn traditional chruches. And then I have some aunties from traditional churches who totally condemn charismatic churches, even calling them blesphemious for their style of worship. Then some of my other friends from charismatic churches defended their style of worship by quoting some verse in the bible that says god does not mind any form of music for worship. So who's more holy here?
Personally, I was anti-Church (and Christ) so I shunned the traditional Churches several years back. That was why I preferred a charismatic Church because the thought of following traditions, rituals, sickens me and remind me of bad memories, and since I am there, I'll just stay there. This is God's will, tian ming. So unless something else happens, why not. And I've soften up about traditions too.. (And I'm in a charismatic Church! I must be weird.)
But. I read more Catholic articles and works than of charismatic and protestant sources.. Even when I was anti-Christ. Historically, I find Catholic records and scholars are more dependable and worth reading. You know.. The thought there are well formulated and researched out rather than based on emotional judgment and (back then) the so called illusive holy sprit.
Now, I try to read and study into both. But my Bible readings are not that good, thats why I can't exactly pull out quotes from the Bible at whim.
The point is, its not a matter of who art thou holier. Its grace by faith that is important. The main question is - You believer anot, if not, you go down after you die. Basically, thats how it goes. -
M© strolls in.....Originally posted by Ito_^:I find both sides funny, I'll get back to you when I reach heaven.
Personally, I was anti-Church (and Christ) so I shunned the traditional Churches several years back. That was why I preferred a charismatic Church because the thought of following traditions, rituals, sickens me and remind me of bad memories, and since I am there, I'll just stay there. This is God's will, tian ming. So unless something else happens, why not. And I've soften up about traditions too.. (And I'm in a charismatic Church! I must be weird.)
But. I read more Catholic articles and works than of charismatic and protestant sources.. Even when I was anti-Christ. Historically, I find Catholic records and scholars are more dependable and worth reading. You know.. The thought there are well formulated and researched out rather than based on emotional judgment and (back then) the so called illusive holy sprit.
Now, I try to read and study into both. But my Bible readings are not that good, thats why I can't exactly pull out quotes from the Bible at whim.
The point is, its not a matter of who art thou holier. Its grace by faith that is important. The main question is - You believer anot, if not, you go down after you die. Basically, thats how it goes.
Woah!
I'd better stick to my trusty 4 spiritual laws.
/siam. -
Well, thats just personal preference la. We end up in heaven, nuff said.Originally posted by M©+square:M© strolls in.....
Woah!
I'd better stick to my trusty 4 spiritual laws.
/siam. -
This is a tricky question.Originally posted by Ito_^:The Holy Communion is practiced in my Church. Does that consider?
Do you believe in the Real Presence?
Because there is no Real Presence in the Protestant churches. -
what do you mean by "Real Presence"? Presence of God?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:This is a tricky question.
Do you believe in the Real Presence?
Because there is no Real Presence in the Protestant churches.
oh yes, there is a daily devotion journal published by CHC.. got one page about this.. lemme type it out awhile later. abit busy now. -
The Real Presence is Jesus present in the forms of bread and wine after the Priest has said the words of consecration during the Liturgy of the Eucharist.Originally posted by Ito_^:what do you mean by "Real Presence"? Presence of God?
oh yes, there is a daily devotion journal published by CHC.. got one page about this.. lemme type it out awhile later. abit busy now.
Jesus is God, which means God is present in the forms of bread and wine.
Post the link if you can. -
Basically, i have very specific reservations, not about god, but about chhristianity, esp when someone call himself the prophet of god, and link himself to god thru this 'holy trinity'.
I have very specific reservations abt the Protestants, who used to justify their breakaway, among other stuff, including the reasons of Pope's excessess..
Now if you look, its more like Protestants' excessess, whereas the Pope, or the last Pope, try to reach a interfaith peace and harmony
I have very specific reservations against preachings by hypocrites who only make statements out of the Bible. Remember the time when your old-school dad demand total respect, obedience and attention, without any question about the way he do stuff, even of you know its wrong and ilogical?
Yup... -
JWorld asked me to ask you whether you want to be a Catholic.Originally posted by laurence82:Basically, i have very specific reservations, not about god, but about chhristianity, esp when someone call himself the prophet of god, and link himself to god thru this 'holy trinity'.
I have very specific reservations abt the Protestants, who used to justify their breakaway, among other stuff, including the reasons of Pope's excessess..
Now if you look, its more like Protestants' excessess, whereas the Pope, or the last Pope, try to reach a interfaith peace and harmony
I have very specific reservations against preachings by hypocrites who only make statements out of the Bible. Remember the time when your old-school dad demand total respect, obedience and attention, without any question about the way he do stuff, even of you know its wrong and ilogical?
Yup... -
Thanks JWorld for her concern, but I seriously do not believe in Christ or the Bible.Originally posted by Honeybunz:JWorld asked me to ask you whether you want to be a Catholic.
Just that, i am peeved at people who dont realise they are not living in their own world, and on one hand preach peace and love, and on the other, artfully wrought hatred towards people who dont share the same belief and faith.
Only thing is, despite the Vatican's past midoings and many people's differences with its current doctrines, it is about the only section in the Christian faith that massively non confrontational and seeks peace with other faiths, as led by the late Pope. -
its not a link.. its really typed out. anyways, different subject altogether. i tot i saw the word communion when i skimmed through but its not about the Holy Communion.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:The Real Presence is Jesus present in the forms of bread and wine after the Priest has said the words of consecration during the Liturgy of the Eucharist.
Jesus is God, which means God is present in the forms of bread and wine.
Post the link if you can.
And yes, the bread is the body of Jesus and the wine(over sweetened ribena actually) is the blood, etc. -
Hai yah! Naymind. I tell Jworld to try harder when she's onlineOriginally posted by laurence82:Thanks JWorld for her concern, but I seriously do not believe in Christ or the Bible. -
Why dont you try on me when i am drunk? kekeOriginally posted by Honeybunz:Hai yah! Naymind. I tell Jworld to try harder when she's online
Anyway, no problem with Christianity within my family, as in the larger extensions
I am happy to say my auntie's family is Catholic, and practise non of the nonsense the evangelists do