Criteria used in the selection of SAF Officers
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Personally i don't care a fuck how BG gets his rank or there r conspiracy within the military whereby sons of the members of parliament(SMP) r automatically officers......
There r so many unfair birthright in this world....no point in criticising them at all. I do believe that the focus should be on whether r these pple capable of upholding the title given to them.....And if u think that u r better than them....well..fight for it lah.
anyone has any comments on BG's or any SMP's incapabilities??
...if no...the case should be close then.. -
Want to fight you think so easy ah, must have very strong kao shan to depend on. If not will be like Seow, Tang, Jeya and Dr Chee.
Case close, can, fine with me. Continue to let the ministers and MPs sons be ministers and officiers loh. -
Wah, very heated discussion leh.
Can let me say something ? But dun flame me ah, you'll regret hehe.
First, please allow me to talk abt something which is not related to the topic, skip this part if you think it is not important :
There are numerous personal attacks here. No matter who started it is not important. When we are attacked, we should not attack back .... if you value constructive discussion. Instead, you should guide the person back to the topic and make him contribute to the discussion constructively.
A forum is a place for people to share views, yes SHARE, not to argue who is right and who is wrong. Like I always say in "Chit Chat", opinions are like religions, you dun change a person's religion by just arguing with him. His opinion may sound totally absurd to you, but that are HIS opinions.
Ok, back to the main topic.
Yes, there are critierias in the process of officer selection. But unfortunately, it is classified as CONFIDENTIAL. So please pardon me for not revealing the details.
Are there other capable BGs ?? Yes. Our Chief Defence Officer, BG (or MG ??)Bey Soo Kiang(correct spelling ?) is a very high flyer if you have ever seen his port folio. Another person is Commander of * SIB (hehe, cannot mention) hint : near Detention Barracks one. He is not even 40 years old, but already a Full Colonel and a military advisor to MG Bey. There are a lot more lah, cannot reveal too much, national secrets.
Well, allow me to off track a bit ah ...
regarding the Lee issue, I only have one thing to say :
When the son of a chicken rice seller was awarded the President Scholarship, everybody thinks he did it cos he is really talented and capable and hardworking.
When the son of a minister was awarded the scholarship, everyone thinks he uses the back door.
With such thinking in our society, who dares to be a politician ?
Sometimes, i am just glad that my parents are illiterate, so people will give all credits to me for whatever achievements i have made.
This is my 5 cents worth. -
HeHeHe, don't worry, I don't suka suka flame anyone so long as you don't talk nonsense. I respect everybody opinion but don't expect me to respect their rubbish.
There are plenty of personal attack here. Yes I am one of them who is doing the attacking, I definitely dare to admit what I had done and said. As for who started the attack, it is up to all wise readers to judge yourself.
As for LG Bey Soo Khiang, (he is a LG, not MG) he is definitely a high flyer, I definitely admit, a nice man also. Saw him many time at Mindef. Queue up patiently behind a few small fly at the canteen. Not even thinking of cutting their queue. However you mention people who not even 40 years old getting the rank of Colonel, there are actually plenty in Mindef. The Chief of Army MJ Lim (also the coming Chief Defence Force) is only 38 this year. The coming Chief of Army MJ Ng, is only 38 this year. Back to your question, is the commander of *SIB a minister or MP son? If not lets not talk about him in this topic.
As for who dare to be politican, I really interested to know you refering to ruling party or opposition party. You think any one would say he/she doesn't want to be politican just because his/her father/mother is a big shot? I doubt so. -
Nope Commander * SIB is not a son of any ministers, it is just aa example of "capable officers" who are not descendants of ministers.Originally posted by democratic worker:Back to your question, is the commander of *SIB a minister or MP son? If not lets not talk about him in this topic.
As for who dare to be politican, I really interested to know you refering to ruling party or opposition party. You think any one would say he/she doesn't want to be politican just because his/her father/mother is a big shot? I doubt so.
No no no, i mean pple will consider twice when wanting to be a politician, not becos of their parents, but their children. Their children will be under a lot of pressure. Like that example i had given, being the son of a chicken rice seller maybe better off hehe
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Correct, like what you said is definitely correct. But I really doubt anyone would reject an offer to be a minister or MP just because of their children. You mention "their children will be under a lot of pressure". I don't really understand, people all under pressure. Not only minister or MP children under pressure. Maybe the pressure you refering to is only their children friends will treat them at a special way or maybe nobody interested to be their friend.
As for chicken rice seller's children getting scholar ship, people will definitely think he/she got it by themself. I agree with what you said. Just think how much of influence can a chicken rice seller create. However if a minister or MP children got it, I will definitely suspect whether he/she uses back door, that is human nature. But do you really think they depend on themself? Only they themself know. As I have already mention in my earlier posting, which SAF officier dare to tekan a minister or MP son? -
i see a lot of little kids who know very little and talk a lot here.
Which SAF officer dares to tekan a minister or MP's son? I can tell you that I dare. I have blasted an ex-service chief's son when his father was still a service chief and if there is a need, i will still do it. i'm not along i can tell u. how senior am i? oh...quite junior, 2 bars only.
BG Lee. If u're talking abt the DPM, it may interest u to know that he was a 1970 SAFOS (SAF Overseas Scholar). My uncle was his sec sch classmate and i was told that BG Lee was indeed a brilliant student. Why is he a BG? Do any of you know that during the cable car incident in 82 (82 rite? i was very young then, can't remember), BG Lee was still a full colonel and he got his star coz he handled the situation very well?
BG Lee was a regular and he was an outstanding one who commanded a lot of respect from others. This I hear from some senior officers.
yes, scholars do fly in the SAF. If MG Lim Chuan Poh was not a SAFOS, would he have become the CDF at 38? No. but he deserves it. Our generals are not lousy people. can BG Lee shoot well? I dunno, but i can tell u that he has a very good runner and MG Lim is a even better one. So is LG Bey and even Educational Minister RADM Teo. I've ran with some of them and my colleagues have ran with the others. We are not slow runners mind u, we're all sub 9:30 2.4 runners. There are certain things abt the top brass which deserves respect and our top brass are not soft pple who hide in Gombak's bunkers.
Now to the topic. What is the criteria used in the selection of SAF officers?
OCS (Officer Cadet School) takes in 4 intakes a year. April (Delta, Foxtrot, Sierra and Tango), June (Bravo and Echo), Sept (Alpha, Sierra, Tango) and Dec (Charlie)
Thus, roughly abt 1000 people make it to OCS a year. How are they selected? BMT rankings. Top 10% of each cohort (no matter which company or platoon, COHORT). The prerequisite is that you must be either a 'A' Level student or a poly student.
The catch in this is that as the Jan BMT intake is the largest (and has most of the 'A' level pple..), the top 10% has the most numbers, which is why the April OCS intake is the largest at 4 companies, which is a maximum of 144 cadets). Thus if u're in the Jan BMT, u arguably have more chance than a guy from Apr BMT as there will be more numbers and places available in OCS.
What is u get posted to SISPEC? Well...after BSLC, the top 10% can jump over to OCS too. Sometimes, mono intake pple jump over too. Nothing extraordinary.
Ok, it's not exactly so clear cut. Delta company in OCS is known as the scholar company because all the potential PSC/SAF/SPF overseas scholars are there. Generally, if yr grades qualify u for the scholarship, u should make it there (assuming u're not really VERY screwed-up). My batch-boy flunked SOC in BMT, still made it there.
Of course, if u choose to sign on as an officer in BMT, they'll give u a lee-way, top 30%. Still, i know countless friends who got chopped as they failed to make the grade.
Is the system foolproof? Sad to say, no. While OCC has one of the highest OOC rate in S'pore due to injuries, there are lots of "cannot make it" cases too. Lots of others who should have made OCS but failed to as well. No system is perfect and till now, no one can find a better system. -
It is more than that, but as i said, it is classified CONFIDENTIAL !
I was a mono-intake batch, and yes, mono-intake pple can get selected to OCS, not extraordinary, but i have a fren, my platoon mate who did not have a dip and yet went to OCS. Hence qualifications is not THAT important, though it is important.
And please do not call people "little kids", no matter how elder you are, i think it is just not gentlemanly to say that. In fact if you are really that elder, you should set as a good example and not use such belittling words. -
the cable car incident not 1982 lah, should be 1972.
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I am not sure whether you are a NSF or regular. If you are an NSF officier and you dare tekan a chief's son, thats is nothing strange, you wouldn't fear your promotion or anything else. If you are a regular and dare to tekan chief's son, I give you my salute.
I don't care you are a old man or small kid, many things people don't mention here doesn't mean people don't know, please kindly have some manner. You may know something people don't know, but there are also many things you don't know but people know. In this case should I say you are a small kid talking rubbish here? No right?
As for high flyer in SAF, correct, there are actually many, you already mention some of them. But do you think they work hard for it or use relationship, needless for me to say, people got eyes to see. As for whether they can become a high flyer also depend if chance is given to them. If no matter how good you are but no chance given, you will still be a low potato in SAF. If a lousy fello given a good and easy task to perform, it is actually very easy to get promoted and people will also say he is super in handling the case. There are many under table issue going on in the world.
Thanks for the information provided regarding for OCS, I only a small potato in Mindef, I do not know anything regarding OCS. -
This is not the fault of the Chief's son.Originally posted by democratic worker:I am not sure whether you are a NSF or regular. If you are an NSF officier and you dare tekan a chief's son, thats is nothing strange, you wouldn't fear your promotion or anything else. If you are a regular and dare to tekan chief's son, I give you my salute. -
Don't understand what you mean.
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I mean whether the Chief's son was receiving special treatment from the regulars or not is not his decision. If the regulars dare not punish him even if he is wrong, that's the mistake of the regular and it has nothing to do with the Chief's son.Originally posted by democratic worker:Don't understand what you mean.
Hence, it is not the fault of the Chief's son to receive such "special treatment", if it ever exists that is. -
the regular doesnt punish the chief's son not because of his decision of not to punish him, it's due to something else, needless for me to say.
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yupz, i believe you mean due to fear of losing his rice-bowl or kenna condemned ? Correct me if I am wrong.Originally posted by adrian xtc:the regular doesnt punish the chief's son not because of his decision of not to punish him, it's due to something else, needless for me to say.
Yes, they may have such fear. But such fear is unfound and is up to them to believe that such possibility exists, hence I still insist that it is not the fault of the Chief's son since this fear is not created by him. -
I read through this posting.. very interesting.. until i come to Altrex.. then very maddening. Altrex talk like he grandfather of SAF know a lot of things.. better still call people little kids, say people dunno what they talking about... i say it here and now, I'm offended.
wah.. ok lah.. u officer lah.. tekan lots of people lah.. but i ask u one question:
Singapore for Singaporeans or Singapore for Officers?
I agree with the other post: you become regular, you see you dare tekan white horse or not. So blatant in army, got white horse and whiter horse and whitest horse. You ask manpower clerks lah, they tell you.
But one thing good about army, i don't say about BG Lee, but at least got many other high-fliers who don't come from politician or big-shot families. That is good, i have no complaint. -
In the SAF computer medical record system PACES (stands for Patient Care Enhancement System, if I remember clearly) there is an interesting tidbit.
Bring up records for certain personnel and you may be surprised to see an icon of a white horse in a corner of the screen. If you right-click the icon, a window pops up with the message, "This is a White Horse."
Hmm, I wonder how this helps in administering medical care to a patient...
Ask your unit MO about it today! -
No need to go see PACES, their Medical Dockets have the chop "HW" alrediOriginally posted by Quisling:In the SAF computer medical record system PACES (stands for Patient Care Enhancement System, if I remember clearly) there is an interesting tidbit.
Bring up records for certain personnel and you may be surprised to see an icon of a white horse in a corner of the screen. If you right-click the icon, a window pops up with the message, "This is a White Horse."
Hmm, I wonder how this helps in administering medical care to a patient...
Ask your unit MO about it today! -
guitar you are the best.
white horse, Mindef got plenty. -
Wow....lots of information regarding OCS and "White Horses". Thank you all for providing all the precious information. Anybody with more info to add?? Anybody knows how the "White Horses" are treated during BMT and the postings they got after BMT?
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Basically, "White Horses" will not get defaulter's parade or confinement easily. They usually have the choice of going 2 OCS, most of them will b posted 2 Delta Company a.k.a "Scholar Company". They will spend most of the time "studying" n not "cheong mountains n valleys."
Most of them will b posted as clerks 2 various camps. -
Got kai feng fu justice bao (bao ching Tian) here, oops should be justice altrex (altrex ching tian). He think he justice bao, uphold justice, kill royal family people. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. Very funny, I think see people got star scare until shiver already. Only can talk big here lah.
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This is indeed an interesting topic.... i like all the points mentioned until i came across this one by "little man".Originally posted by LittleMan:Another person is Commander of * SIB (hehe, cannot mention) hint : near Detention Barracks one. He is not even 40 years old, but already a Full Colonel and a military advisor to MG Bey.
Juz to correct you, the person you mentioned is not commander of SIB, but rather CO SAFPU(SAF Provost Unit). SIB is a company under SAFPU. Anyway, he is not a Full Colonel yet, instead, he's a LTC. whether he is an advisor to LG Bey, not many ppl know, maybe you have inside information??
well regarding the qualification of BG Lee, he is absolutely well qualified. He was the 1st batch of the 5 ppl who were awarded the SAF scolarship. Among the 5 of them, most were BG, if not a Full Colonel, with the exception of one still a major.
okie, interesting topic, i will definately keep up with the disscussion.... -
To further add to that, BG Lee was also one of the first batches of president scholars......no doubt relations provided him an opportunity, everyone was aware of his existence, but it was up to his own capabilities that he got to climb up to what he is today. You can't just depend on pure relationships to perform your duty well as Deputy Prime Minister and Chairman of MAS.
And regarding white horses and everything, I don't see anywhere which in the OCS constitution indicating preferential treatment for white horses.
Yeap, I agree this is an interesting topic, I will be popping by often too..... -
are you sure we are talking about the same person ??? I am very sure of my information becos * SIB is under my Division and I hold a post in the Divisional Manpower Branch, i sure know who is under my Division and who is not.Originally posted by yoohoo:Juz to correct you, the person you mentioned is not commander of SIB, but rather CO SAFPU(SAF Provost Unit). SIB is a company under SAFPU. Anyway, he is not a Full Colonel yet, instead, he's a LTC. whether he is an advisor to LG Bey, not many ppl know, maybe you have inside information??
And becos i work in the Divisional Manpower Branch, i have assess to the Officers' port folio. This explains my knowledge on this person.
But is he still in * SIB or not, i dunno, cos i am out of NS for a couple of years alredi, when i was serving NS, CDF was only a BG but now ... a LG.