Criteria used in the selection of SAF Officers
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What is the criteria used in the selection of SAF officers? It seems that sons of Members of Parliament (PAP side) or high ranking officers in the SAF are automatically officers. But are these children qualified? The sons of these people are treated differently during their BMT. Imagine what would happen to the PC if the son of the Minister of Defence is being confined on a weekend. It seems that Singapore is still not a very Democratic country.
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i agreed with u that SG is NOT a democratic country, did u know of any country in the world that is 100% or almost 100% democratic???
as for the criteria, i believe that there should be "foul play". there r so many examples out there to see. -
To opposition party,
You have said that Singapore may not be seen as a Democratic Party.
I agree with Adrian that there might be some untuned rhythms in the system. But does that mean that the opposition party will ensure democracy???
I think not.
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Chromeheart Minds: The Endless Search for Intellectual Freedom -
I refer to Opposition party's statement:
"It seems that sons of Members of Parliament (PAP side) or high ranking officers in the SAF are automatically officers. But are these children qualified?"
This is a very unproven and uncalled for remark made by the relevant party, to the extent of even naming the 'PAP' in your entry.
Do your research before posting such irresponsible statements as this involves a very sensitive issue.
Automatic officers?? Why, they ARE qualified with the paper qualifications.
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Chromeheart Minds: The Endless Search for Intellectual Freedom -
Hmmmmmm, somebody seem to be very furious with this topic.
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and there was a bg lee who couldn't even shoot for peanuts and ........he's bg.......education? in what? in military aspects? what on earth has normal qualifications and degrees for e.g. in mass comm, law or anything else for that matter has to do with the army? does it mean that anyone in the world who has an equivalent of any of our BG's degree has just as much chance to be a BG too? I'm sure there are many ppl with BG's equivalent in papers. even then, they are not anywhere near a Cpt.
[This message has been edited by the truth (edited 14 March 2000).] -
wether or not, the opposition can give democracy is still to be seen, but we're all dead sure that the former is not giving much of democracy and that,m is undeniable.......
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opposition party: sons of MP will not get confinement, rest assured. Have seen cases whereby, "outside power" will influence the decision of the PC.
Juz put yourself in the shoes of the PC, will u risk your "Fan Wan"?? Definitely not!! -
Hmmmmmm, quite true.
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Do most of you understand the term "democratic"? It's more a question of "meritocracy", rather than "democracy".
But I'm not saying whether Singapore is 100% democratic. All of us know what kind of state *ah-hem* Singapore is, and I won't wanna get sued or anything.
But I do agree that the selection of officers is a felony. While I did BMT, in my company, every platoon had less than 10 people going to OCS. Whereas in another company, each platoon saw about 20 people going to OCS. (Each BMT platoon has about 48 - 54 men, for those unfamiliar with army lingo. And OCS is Officer Cadet Skool) It's got nothing to do with education level - All of us had 'A' levels. If OCS really picks the best calibre, it should be more of picking the top 10% of each platoon, so that everyone stands an equal chance.
But what the heck anyway! Do you really want that extra years of reservist? Are there that many priviledges being an officer? C'mon! After 2 and a half WASTED YEARS, out on the street, who gives a %&*# whether or not u were an officer? Just Serve And F*** off!
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I am Nobody.
Nobody's Perfect.
I am Perfect. -
That's the point about education.
you do your education, you get your fruits.
Yes, through the rank BG was given, it does not necessarily denotes the ability to exceed in physical warfare like an Infantry Capt. We need people to lead, and these are the individuals who have came forward to be elected to lead the country and THEY HAVE BEEN ELECTED by the people of Singapore.
Your point of view is just like an Infantry Capt being elected as a Minister and people actually contested it because the Capt has only done mainly physical duties in the Army, and not Political duties.
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Chromeheart Minds: The Endless Search for Intellectual Freedom -
To The truth,
The truth is, those people whom you spoke about with 'bg qualification' might be busy with their own aspirations.
Not everyone wants to be a Minister.
Not everyone wants to get into Politics.
And definitely, Not every Tom, Dick or Harry with a degree can be in BG Lee's shoes if he hasn't proven himself to be in that calibre.
Bg Lee has. And if any of your friends with 'bg papers' who are nowhere near a Capt are interested, they can too join in the election.
Provided they have got the calibre.
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Chromeheart Minds: The Endless Search for Intellectual Freedom -
the truth is, regardless of similar or equal or even better qualifications than our dear BG, no one will rise as fast and definately not as far as him. Even if they are interested in politics and such, no one with such interests and exceeding capability will ever reach near where our special BG is now. Truth is, he is unique. Simply because he has an L and an E in his name. so try as much as u might, u can't cover the fact that although all singaporeans matter, some matter more. and an elite some matter most above evryone else. Oh, BTW what has our dear BG done and proven that is so special that it requires attention to prove oneself to be considered his equal? we were never at any point equal with him thru out our lives to begin with.
[This message has been edited by the truth (edited 15 March 2000).] -
the SGans mostly vote for PAP cos they have no choices, the opp parties n the independent candidates r worser than PAP.
so many SGans vote for PAP doesnt mean the PAP is a perfect political party. SGans just have no other choices cos we noe wat will happen if the opp parties took over PAP. our opp parties r still way back compared to those in our neighbouring countries. -
dear adrian, please keep within the context of the thread. We are talking abt the SAF and the selection criteria. not the PAP and the opposition. In the midst of an arguement, we might touch on the PAP/opp. but that being the inevitable. But dun start on the PAP andf the Opp as a topic.
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Hmmmmmmm, seem that got PAP supporters here.
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To the truth,
You wrote:
"the truth is, regardless of similar or equal or even better qualifications than our dear BG, no one will rise as fast and definately not as far as him. Even if they are interested in politics and such, no one with such interests and exceeding capability will ever reach near where our special BG is now."
The above statement is just an assumption of how you see things on the flat side. Our BG is a Minister. However with the rank of BG he would be required to perform his military duties in terms of war, as the key commanding officer. I have no doubt in his leadership.
Indeed, "no one with such interests and exceeding capability will ever reach near where our special BG is now."
Simply because I haven't seen anyone with those abilities running for a place in the elections as yet.
"Truth is, he is unique. Simply because he has an L and an E in his name. so try as much as u might, u can't cover the fact that although all singaporeans matter, some matter more. and an elite some matter most above evryone else."
This is a very cynical remark built on a personal view. I agree with your view that some 'Singaporeans matter more", though to me they are all the same.
However I feel that it's rather Unethical of you to take your swipe at an individual's surname.
Sure, it's the Forum for Freedom of Speech. But why, Should there be any Speech Ettiquette involved??
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Chromeheart Minds: The Endless Search for Intellectual Freedom -
To the truth,
Regarding your view about what the BG has done and proven to be deserving of the current recognition he has now, I suggest you read the papers more and also keep track of the proceedings during the Parliament.
Perhaps you would get a better view of what the MPs, Ministers have done and then place your bets on whether they are deserving or not.
Cheers
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Chromeheart Minds: The Endless Search for Intellectual Freedom -
to the truth:
sorry, i noe i'm going off topic.
to democratic worker:
i hope u r not referring to me. i'm not. -
can't keep on going on in this discussion with chromeheart. with such a pro PAP activist here, its really a chore......anyway, to briefly respond, there's no swipe at the L & E surname in general just one family with the L & E in singapore. For all we know, the straits times is the biggest media joke and we all know that the CNN, CNBC and so on provide a more transparent and uncensored version of the news as it is ....esp home news. Lastly, I really admire u for ur admiration of our BG Lee. U make him sound like a supreme being.....well maybe like father like son? u for all i care can believe in his ability and not have a single doubt, but i and some others, and many more to come, will have and always have had a lot of doubts in his capabilities esp. military wise......btw, until there is war, a lot remains to be seen.....then again, there'll hardly be a war fought here, so think again......
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To adrian xtc:
Don't worry, i am definitely not refering to you. -
to the truth:
You got my support. -
To the truth,
Please Do Not Put YOUR WORDS Into My Context, as I have earlier spoke about Speech Ettiquency.
Your comment about me being a 'Pro-PAP' individual have deal an amount of disregard for my credibility as a speaker/ writer.
I am definitely impartial in my writings, and relate to what I see.
What I see is that we have got the best Government Management so far that has kept Singapore in the long run for International Progress and Recognition.
If anyone was any better they would have taken over the current Management and proven themselves by now. And if they prove their worth, I dare say that I would definitely be one of the first to applaud them.
May I serve a gentle reminder:
Whenever you start to burt your rotor mouth off, try to ask yourself the "Why Not?" question.
If you were of any sense to the discussion here then perhaps you would understand the rationale behind this "Why Not' policy.
I have always adopt this approach to understanding your postings. Like the statements you made, I evaluated them by using the "Why Not" question and found that there are much less reasons to substantiate your claims, which would be labelled as "of no substantial value".
Yes, we can definitely continue with this discussion because that's the way a discussion goes when it progresses into a debate. And the involvement of a debate is the hottest part and definitely the most constructive element of a good discussion.
If you have read my other postings, there are also instances whereby I also try to understand your rationale (Adrian's as well) and voice my agreement. Which is why I don't see any biased based materials in my writings.
I am contributing to this forum under an open mind with my point of view, through my years of experience. Yes, I have been through NS, as a Combat Engineer, PES A.
I do contribute to CPF as well, like all of you here, except that maybe I see more rationale and advantages in it than most of you here.
Well, the truth,
Supposedly you were in a debate with another team regarding this topic, Are you going to label the other team as "pro PAP" and proclaim the discussion a standstill??
We are all thinkers in our own rights and I believe that I, together with the rest of you here, Deserves The Humanitian Right To Be Respected For Our Reasoning, The Right to be Viewed for Our Reasoning In Speech, Rather than Viewing Me as in the Political Party I Support, which clearly shows unpolished materials in your inventory.
Your comments about my Political Allegiance could possibly generate a laughing stock in a REAL conference.
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Chromeheart Minds: The Endless Search for Intellectual Freedom -
To the truth,
I did not say that you were taking 'a swipe at the surname in general'.
I said: "A swipe at an individual's surname"
If there were any literates here, they would easily spot what you were trying to insinuate with your statement " L & E in the name......"
You have already made that statement, and like I have said, any Literate would know who you were referring to: An Individual.
And the Irony is, after all that I have said, you still haven't answered the "Why Not?" question.
All you did was say "No no No No" etc.
You haven't offered any Constructive postings so as to the following questions:
1) Why Not BG Lee??
2) Why is he not deserving??
3) Why are other individuals Deserving??
4) And if they are Deserving, why are they not in the hot seat??
5) Can You make yourself clear with the "L & E" issue??
6) How many Army Capts whom you have said are "better" and of more calibre than the Bg, have actually voiced out their own potential and abilities to be able to run the Government Cabinet??
7) Are you going to declare future discussions a Standstill by calling the other party a "Pro-PAP activist?" (Yes, That Was what you wrote about me. Any Literate can See that)
And how much truth does the CNN offers compared to the Straits Times?? (And mind you, I was not referring to only Straits times when I had asked you to read the Papers)
9) The Parliament endorses all the Political Issues. Can you tell me whether if BG Lee alone could change the course of Nature just because like why you said, he had the "L & E" in his name??
10) Can you identify the worthy ones to upstage BG Lee or any high-profile Ministers since you think there are so much talents out there??
The Truth,
you started the discussion with the incision that BG Lee is not so deserving of his military rank, and you have contributed nothing constructive else, except that you tried to summarise the topic by labelling me a "Pro-PAP Activist".
For your information and knowledge perhaps,
The above 10 questions I have listed out Are the Elements to look out for in a REAL DISCUSSION.
Try Reasoning them out first and Prove your Worth. Prove that Adrian were right to support your claims.
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Chromeheart Minds: The Endless Search for Intellectual Freedom -
Yes Yes,
And you have Democratic Worker's support as well, don't you??
Oh, should I follow your way and label Democratic Worker as a "Pro Democratic Activist" whatsoever and declare the continuation of the discussion a chore??
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Chromeheart Minds: The Endless Search for Intellectual Freedom